Great Generals and promotions

[val13]

A Great General, giving all 20 XP to one unit, is... er... great... but... what unit is best and what promotions?

I've been thinking that City Raider promotion isn't as good as the 10% strength bonus (Combat V). For instance:

A maceman is strength 8. A 10% strength bonus isn't much, but, if you get to lv5 strength bonus, that is 50% (right?), so, a maceman is then strength 12. Add to that another 50% vs melee, it would be strength 18 vs other melee warriors.

A gunship is strength 20. With 50% strength bonus, it goes to strength 30 with a 100% added vs armor (which should make it strength 60, yes?).

Modern armor is strength 40. With 50% bonus, it too would be strength 60 with an automatic first strike (which can be upgraded as well).

Panzer's start at 28 strength, and with 50% bonus would be 42. Add another 50% for armored units and it would be strength 63.

Then add the Ambush promotion for another 25% strength raise vs armor units which should stack with the 100% right? So, that would give Combat V helicopter Gunships a strength of 75 vs armored units, as it would Modern Armor a 75 strength vs armored units.

Add Pinch promotion for another 25% bonus vs gunpowder units.

Are these calculations correct?

 

[futurehermit]

best is medic 3 on a unit that won't defend (chariot is best). super fast healing for your troops so they can keep marching onwards.

i usually will do that with the first 2 GGs i get. that way you can split your forces into two stacks and rampage quickly through enemy territory

 

[Leveler]

A maceman is strength 8. A 10% strength bonus isn't much, but, if you get to lv5 strength bonus, that is 50% (right?), so, a maceman is then strength 12. Add to that another 50% vs melee, it would be strength 18 vs other melee warriors.

Bonus percents will be added up first and then multiplied to base strengt.

8 + 50% + 50% = 8 + 100% = 16

 

[Chrispy]

This forum is where I first saw the idea of the Great Medic. While I like the idea of the Chariot as a Great Medic, and I've seen ideas around an Explorer as a Great Medic, I found another one yesterday while playing Shaka:

C1 Impi gets Medic 1 from Barracks. I joined the GG and added Medic 2, Medic 3, and Morale to make a 3 move Mobility Great Medic. It's Zulu-specific, but he's of great use with 2 stacks.

 

[johnny_rico]

This forum is where I first saw the idea of the Great Medic. While I like the idea of the Chariot as a Great Medic, and I've seen ideas around an Explorer as a Great Medic, I found another one yesterday while playing Shaka:

C1 Impi gets Medic 1 from Barracks. I joined the GG and added Medic 2, Medic 3, and Morale to make a 3 move Mobility Great Medic. It's Zulu-specific, but he's of great use with 2 stacks.

Those guys are awesome. 2 or 3 of them will keep the war machine constantly moving. My best score to date is with the zulus and these great medics are one of the main reasons why.

 

[manu-fan]

Hmm, interesting.

I usually use my GG for the +25% production, and then the +2 EXP to a couple of my main unti production citys.

Cheers.

 

[morchuflex]

Can you settle more than one GG in one city and have your troops start with +4, +6 or even more exp?

 

[Elandal]

Yes, you can settle as many as you want. The effect is cumulative, so settling five GGs to a single city will give +10 XP.

The limiting factors in settling are how many GGs can you get in the game, and how strong are the different uses: warlord units, settling as instructors, building military academies - all have their place and the dynamics depend on the situation at hand and your grand plan.

 

[val13]

Bonus percents will be added up first and then multiplied to base strengt.

8 + 50% + 50% = 8 + 100% = 16

Hmm... in another thread (can't remember which one), someone mentioned having a lv 13 Gunship.

I go pretty strictly Conquest, and I'm at lv 10 Infantry (Great General'd, only 1 stack that conquers the world, same units fighting every battle, etc)...

How much experience do you earn for what?????

I attack and get 1 XP per unit I kill.

 

[DarkFyre99]

A Great General, giving all 20 XP to one unit, is... er... great... but... what unit is best and what promotions?

My usual tactic is to add him to a catapult or Trebuchet, and give him medic III. He very rarely defends, doesn't take collateral damage (when he does), and he can bombard city defenses. Even better, he can take out the last, greatly weakend defender for the last one or three XP needed for level six (I rarely run both vassalage and theocracy at the same time). Edit: And morale so he can move two, of course.

I've been thinking that City Raider promotion isn't as good as the 10% strength bonus (Combat V). For instance:

A maceman is strength 8. A 10% strength bonus isn't much, but, if you get to lv5 strength bonus, that is 50% (right?), so, a maceman is then strength 12. Add to that another 50% vs melee, it would be strength 18 vs other melee warriors.

I prefer to go the specialized route myself. A specialized attacker and a specialized defender will do better than two generalized units... unless you are attacked by so many units that your attacker has to defend, of course. But then, you're probably in trouble anyways.

A gunship is strength 20. With 50% strength bonus, it goes to strength 30 with a 100% added vs armor (which should make it strength 60, yes?).

Nope. First, only combat promotions are added to the attacker. Anti-unit bonuses are generally subtracted from the defender's bonuses first, then subtracted from the defender's strength (IIRC). Second, all bonuses are added together before being applied to the unit's base strength.

 

[val13]

DarkFyre99,

I sat down and mapped out all the promotions for melee, archery, gunpowder, etc.

You've got to get up around lv 15 or so to really get ALL of the bonus's a unit promotion could get Great General'd (unit specific plus the additional Great General promotions).

In the game I just played (Standard size, continents), I used one stack to attack the world, setting up defensive units to guard my back and territory as I travelled the world with this one stack always using the same Great General units to get kills XP. I only got to lv 11.

Do I need to go huge map? Maybe marathon speed instead of epic?... to get units up to lv 15/16? I only got like 5 Great Generals in my game by the time I conquered the world, so, it isn't like you can have very many of them!

I basically want to get one Melee Unit (which then upgrades to Gunpower Unit and Mech Infantry), one Mounted Unit (which upgrades to Helicopter Unit), and one Armor Unit Great General'd with everything I can get on them, doing all the melee/mounted promotions before upgrading. I thought of Siege Units, but, their movement rate sucks. I want a small, fast, mobile force that can slice through the enemy.

So what would you suggest? longer time or bigger map?

 

[Elandal]

To get more GGs, you need bigger map. Bigger map will mean more cities and more units, and thus more attacks total. GG emergence depends on XP gained, so more units to be killed = more XP = more GGs.

 

[Immaculate]

This forum is where I first saw the idea of the Great Medic. While I like the idea of the Chariot as a Great Medic, and I've seen ideas around an Explorer as a Great Medic, I found another one yesterday while playing Shaka:

C1 Impi gets Medic 1 from Barracks. I joined the GG and added Medic 2, Medic 3, and Morale to make a 3 move Mobility Great Medic. It's Zulu-specific, but he's of great use with 2 stacks.

Haha- i did that too in my current off-line game as well as in the WOTM. it really is wonderful. Move 3 and -1 move cost on hills/forests/jungle, etc: Its SOOO good!

 

[jray]

I like making a Medic III with Leadership and March. Then you can use him at the end of each round of battle to accumulate 2 (occasionally 4) XP, and he keeps everyone else in good shape.

Then I keep on adding the best attack promotions available (City Raider in early eras and then Pinch, Combat, etc.). Maybe throw in Tactics too for extra insurance, or Blitz for even more attack capability.

I either use a Chariot that will grow up to be a Gunship someday, or an Axeman that will grow up to be an Infantry (perhaps even Mech Infantry, but my games rarely last that long).

 

[DarkFyre99]

Val13,

If I were interested in getting as high a level unit as possible, I'd try this tactic:

1. Leader: Hannibal or Cyrus. Hannibal's Charismatic (thus units level more quickly) and he has a mounted unique unit with a bonus Flank I. Cyrus is also a posibility, because he is Charismatic and Imperialistic (+100% Great General Appearance) and also has a mounted unique unit.
2. Play a larger map. More land = more cities = more units defending them = more battles = more opportunities for my Warlord unit to pick off weakened units.
3. Play on Marathon speed. Longer game speed = more turns to fight wars in = more opportunities for my Warlord unit to pick off weakened units.
4. I'd only use this unit to fight the last defenders in a battle. The name of the game is nursing this unit, so this Warlord won't be leading from the front.
5. I'd assign the Warlord to a mounted unit. Starting promotions would be: Tactics, Leadership, Flanking I, and Flanking II. Remember, the idea is to nurse the unit along, so you won't be taking any large risks, while Tactics + Flanking I & II means you can escape death +60% of the time when the RNG is against you. Leadership doubles the XP you do get.
6. I'm pretty sure you can't add two Great Generals to the same unit, but I could put a Great General into a two unit stack... with one being my uber-Warlord. Each new GG would give your unit an additional 10 xp.
7. Next batch of promotions would be: Combat I - III, Blitz, and March. This will permit you to make multiple attacks per round, and heal on the move, meaning you can fight more one-sided battles per turn.
8. Once I have access to Helicopters, I'd start adding Drill Promotions. This greatly increases the odds of attacking without getting hit in return when facing heavily damaged units or obsolete units.
9. Last but not least, I'd pick up Combat IV - VI, and Commando, followed by Pinch and Ambush.

Let's see: that's 19 promotions, for Level 20... which requires 272 XP (362 - 25% for Charismatic). That's a lot of battles to fight, even using later GGs for extra XP.

As I said, I prefer Great Medics assigned to Seige Units, though I'm tempted to try this just to see how high I can get a single unit.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Great medics on siege units are my favorite use for GGs but I tend to stick with the second and third GG for this. The first one will normally get my main unit production city building level III units (barracks is +3xp, GG is +2xp), the following ones building my medic unit. It's not the most efficient, but I seem to get the first GG before Catapults shows up.

 

[val13]

Ok... two clarifying questions:

1) What does "100% GG emergence" mean???

2) The MARCH promotion... is that for THAT unit or that the unit upgraded with MARCH can heal OTHER units while moving?

 

[CivDude86]

The 100% GG thing means earning 1XP counts for 2 for getting a GG and march only works for the unit that has the promo.

 

[Yeekim]

@CivDude 86: I'd clarify regarding March promotion.
AFAIK to regain its health OR heal another unit, unit must stand still - unless it has March promo.
This means, that if you have wounded unit fortified, standing still AND you move your March promoted unit to the same tile (or attack from that tile, remaining there), it will still heal the fortified unit on that same turn provided it has Medic also.
Bottom line is, that giving March to Medics can benefit other units too, not only the one with the promotion.

@Dark Fyre
Marathon speed means both longer game and higher XP threshold for new GG. I vaguely remember, that Epic might be better in this regard, as the ratio of game length vs threshold rise there was was not 1:1 but rather 1.5:1 or like. Someone more knowledgeable prove or correct this.

 

[Immaculate]

March only works on units that are being healed, not on units that are doing healing.
It is useless to put March on your medics. Put march on a unit that you need to keep going despite being wounded (or skip it completely and just stop for a couple turns to heal).
There was a great article in the strategy articles forum about it that explained all the workings of unit healing. Go read it. Especially if you are confused about what affects healing or how to be a very efficient healer.


EDIT: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157954