Great Proposals!

[bundy]

What do you think about this proposals:

1. Money should be more important and tax system should be more complicated. So you couldn’t build Highways without any sense. And with more money you could develop better Units. Every action will cost some money, from road building to unit building.

2. There should be Councils where you will be able to propose some things like banning nuclear weapons or to decide in a conflict, who is an aggressor.

3. It will be good if you could make terms when you sign alliance. Like when will you involve in conflict or when will alliance be broken.

4. Commerce should be easier. You put something on market (oil) and you make price (100s per barrel) and who want to buy oil Negotiates with you. Now it takes to many time to contact with everybody.

5. It should be possible to make borders agreement so it wouldn’t be possible to "steel" territory by making a city near border. And also you will be able to make tampon zones by selling plain territory.

6. When you make right of passage agreement, that you give him a route, where his troops can move, and that you can let him have just some sum of troops on your territory.

7. There should be "status meter" of your relationships with others (1-100) .These status points will be representing your relations in past 200 years. So if you have with somebody good relations in last hundred years, he wouldn’t attack you for some small reason. (USA - Canada). And you should be part of one culture, and you will have better relations with countries of same culture

8. I think that it will be good that you need to make Tank, airplane, howitzer... factory to make that kind of WEAPON. So you should protect that town.
It will be strategic town because these factories will be expensive. Then will precision strikes become very important (Iraq)

9. Only towns with airport should hold airplanes. And Airports should be in more types, from village airports (cheep) to modern ones (expensive)

10. It will be good that you need to make oil-pipes from oil-source to the factories to build units. Maybe it will be good that you can build huge power plants outside towns, which will be connected to cities with power lines.

11. It will be also good that you can produce your own units (you choose what will you put in them) and that you can then sell them to other civ’s (like now Americans do)

12. There should be unit-limit. It will be proportional to population. And when you lead war without many casualties (with guided missiles) people wouldn’t protest against war.

13. Heavy machinery shouldn’t go over mountains without road. Roads should be expensive (especially over mountains), you will need to pay to build a road (now you build roads for free). So those mountains roads will be very important.

14. Cities with walls (in ancient times) , cant be attacked with land units so you should build siege equipment to occupy city, or just hold till they die from hunger( cause when you close city walls you cant get no more food)

15. It will be good that when you destroy or occupy the town that land stays in your borders and that borders can’t go over big rivers ore big mountains without a bridge or a road so borders will be much more realistic. (Like in Europe, Rein, Alps, Pyrenees, Danube...)And there should be action that your unit on enemy territory can occupy that square like in real war.

16. Also if you cant reach your ally. Because you can’t get to him cause your enemy is between you, that you cant trade with him.

17. And there should be ability to build wall on open territory. (Hadrian and Chinese wall).It could be used only against ancient units. In modern ages there should be line (maginot) with mines and fence.

18. Units should have 1radius square of area where enemy unites cant pass thru like in civ2. So you could set that (for example) your submarine attacks any intruder within 2 squares. That way it won’t be possible to come with 1 ship to enemy coast and unload your units.

19. Caravels should be reinvented. For delivering food in cities under siege, or modern ones, to deliver oil if there is no oil pipes to that town.

20. You should be able to build bridges over rivers and canals which will be hard to build so it will be strategic points. Canals could be built over lowland and it should be very expensive.

 

[searcheagle]

What do you think about this proposals:

1. Money should be more important and tax system should be more complicated. So you couldn’t build Highways without any sense. And with more money you could develop better Units. Every action will cost some money, from road building to unit building.

Money should be more important in allowing what you can and can't do. Road/RR maintaince should have costs. However, actions should not cost money- this is already include in the unit upkeep of the unit.

2. There should be Councils where you will be able to propose some things like banning nuclear weapons or to decide in a conflict, who is an aggressor.

Agreed. We should have more sophisticated diplomatic systems. It has really annoyed me that I asked to take sides in a war when I know nothing about the circumstances. Also, it would be nice if when an injustice was committed against me, if other civs helped me avenge it.

3. It will be good if you could make terms when you sign alliance. Like when will you involve in conflict or when will alliance be broken.

Always useful. It would add alot to the game.

4. Commerce should be easier. You put something on market (oil) and you make price (100s per barrel) and who want to buy oil Negotiates with you. Now it takes to many time to contact with everybody.

Why is this in the game already? FYI-Download Civ assist in the Utilities section. It tells who is demanding what.

5. It should be possible to make borders agreement so it wouldn’t be possible to "steel" territory by making a city near border. And also you will be able to make tampon zones by selling plain territory.

Not sure what you are saying. But I agree that you should be able to set borders, and them stealing it would cause bad diplomatic relations.

6. When you make right of passage agreement, that you give him a route, where his troops can move, and that you can let him have just some sum of troops on your territory.

The maximum number of troops is an good idea in a ROP. This would be a good idea to prevent ROP Rapes. As for the rest of the ideas, I propose an alternative. Divide the your into territories, and only allow into certain territories. Also, have different ROPs for Air, Sea, and Land.

7. There should be "status meter" of your relationships with others (1-100) .These status points will be representing your relations in past 200 years. So if you have with somebody good relations in last hundred years, he wouldn’t attack you for some small reason. (USA - Canada). And you should be part of one culture, and you will have better relations with countries of same culture

You got off to a good start. There should be a status meter and all players should have access to the matrix of relationship with every civ by everyother civ. Am I hated worldwided? By Whom? Who is hated?- Who is loved? Good relations should not however, give you culture points. They should reduce the likelihood of attack both becuase of the friendliness of the govs and the public outcry by the public.

8. I think that it will be good that you need to make Tank, airplane, howitzer... factory to make that kind of WEAPON. So you should protect that town.
It will be strategic town because these factories will be expensive. Then will precision strikes become very important (Iraq)

I see the benefits and the costs. However, I see more disadvantages. I oppose.

9. Only towns with airport should hold airplanes. And Airports should be in more types, from village airports (cheep) to modern ones (expensive)

Explain more in depth

10. It will be good that you need to make oil-pipes from oil-source to the factories to build units. Maybe it will be good that you can build huge power plants outside towns, which will be connected to cities with power lines.

Pipelines are already in the game. Think roads and/or colonies. Powerplants are a different issue completely.

11. It will be also good that you can produce your own units (you choose what will you put in them) and that you can then sell them to other civ’s (like now Americans do)

Right, and see who else is willing to buy them and for what costs.

12. There should be unit-limit. It will be proportional to population. And when you lead war without many casualties (with guided missiles) people wouldn’t protest against war.

There should be no fixed limit for unit strength. There should be a point where additional units become more expensive. Another thing that bugs me is the unit support, where the first x units have no cost. I think the first x units should have minimal costs, and the next x should have more, and so forth. But no fixed limit. Just make the leader decide if it is worth it.

13. Heavy machinery shouldn’t go over mountains without road. Roads should be expensive (especially over mountains), you will need to pay to build a road (now you build roads for free). So those mountains roads will be very important.

Heavy machinery and other units can't go over certain terrain, such as jungles, mountains, swamps, etc now without roads.

14. Cities with walls (in ancient times) , cant be attacked with land units so you should build siege equipment to occupy city, or just hold till they die from hunger( cause when you close city walls you cant get no more food)

No, cities should still retain the ability to do an assualt. However, the ability to set up a seige should be an option.

15. It will be good that when you destroy or occupy the town that land stays in your borders and that borders can’t go over big rivers ore big mountains without a bridge or a road so borders will be much more realistic. (Like in Europe, Rein, Alps, Pyrenees, Danube...)And there should be action that your unit on enemy territory can occupy that square like in real war.

About rivers and mountains, Im not sure. There should be a reaction with captured enemy territory that is still in another civs culture.

16. Also if you cant reach your ally. Because you can’t get to him cause your enemy is between you, that you cant trade with him.

Thats the way it is now. However, it is very hard to be isolate a civ and it is impossible to reduce their supply of a resource. This should not occur.

17. And there should be ability to build wall on open territory. (Hadrian and Chinese wall).It could be used only against ancient units. In modern ages there should be line (maginot) with mines and fence.

You could make a line of fortress/barricades.

18. Units should have 1radius square of area where enemy unites cant pass thru like in civ2. So you could set that (for example) your submarine attacks any intruder within 2 squares. That way it won’t be possible to come with 1 ship to enemy coast and unload your units.

And add to that man made cannals too.

[/QUOTE]19. Caravels should be reinvented. For delivering food in cities under siege, or modern ones, to deliver oil if there is no oil pipes to that town.[/QUOTE] They already deliever the resource if there is a harbor by water. Food makes sense too. Why not?

20. You should be able to build bridges over rivers and canals which will be hard to build so it will be strategic points. Canals could be built over lowland and it should be very expensive.

Yeah that would be interesting and add more strategy.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

1. I'd say no, money already has a big enough role, and although I'd support it as a cost for building improvements, money is not what you fundamentally use to make things

2-4. Improved/Automatable diplomacy would be nice

5. Border agreements sound valuable (although possibly difficult)..and I Think you mean buffer zones

6.same as 5

7. They already have that

8. possibly good

9. I think civ assumes that all towns have that cheap village airport (but some more limitations on planes from that airport might be good)

10./11. neat ideas

12. Good replacement to the current unit limit idea

13,14. both considered ideas

15. so you could occupy a city that is not in your borders?..good idea

16. They already do this (just usually there is a sea or air route that is really hard to cut)

17. definitely a good idea (a wall of fortresses might do this if..)
18. units having a 'Zone of Combat' ie your submarine auto attacks any unit coming in range (that is weak enough coimparred to the sub)

19. I think those are better abstracted

20. Been suggested and I definitely agree.

 

[sealman]

The pros and cons of many of these ideas, or similar ones, have been discussed in length in many a thread.

 

[ForbiddenPalace]

It will be also good that you can produce your own units (you choose what will you put in them) and that you can then sell them to other civ’s (like now Americans do)

I agree that nations should be able to sell units to each others, even unique units such as high tech missels.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think that what he means by point #4, is that you should be able to place your resources on the 'Open Market'. That is, announce to everyone you have communications with that you have a certain resource to sell, and perhaps even what your asking price per unit is.
Then, other civs would see it and come to you to make you an offer, with your estimated price as a starting point. The two nations could then haggle over the final trade. At least, thats how I read it!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[bundy]

I think that what he means by point #4, is that you should be able to place your resources on the 'Open Market'. That is, announce to everyone you have communications with that you have a certain resource to sell, and perhaps even what your asking price per unit is.
Then, other civs would see it and come to you to make you an offer, with your estimated price as a starting point. The two nations could then haggle over the final trade. At least, thats how I read it!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Yes ,I ment that.

Money should be more important in allowing what you can and can't do. Road/RR maintaince should have costs. However, actions should not cost money- this is already include in the unit upkeep of the unit.

I think that actions should cost money couse there will be difference between rich and poor nations, like now, germany has great infrastructure couse it is rich but bosnia has no highways couse they are poor.

And I think that in modern age shilds should be replaced with money. So if I have money i can built airport in a village if I wont. Time to build a improvment should only depend on a money u want to pay. (not on a size of town)Couse with same money I can build airport in New york and in albany in same time.


Quote:
8. I think that it will be good that you need to make Tank, airplane, howitzer... factory to make that kind of WEAPON. So you should protect that town.
It will be strategic town because these factories will be expensive. Then will precision strikes become very important (Iraq)

I think that this will be really great. That will give new level of tactics in the game.

Quote:
9. Only towns with airport should hold airplanes. And Airports should be in more types, from village airports (cheep) to modern ones (expensive)


Now every town can hold airplains what is irealistic, so airplains on ground are not very important. And only modern airports should hold modern airplanes( b2 cannot land on a village airport) And modern airports will be expenssive so they will be strategic places.

 

[troytheface]

in so far as the airport idea......actually factories should make airplanes too.
Same thing with harbors- these are points of transit- not manufacturing facilities. It should be Factories for both airplanes Dock Factories (i forget the name) for building ships.

 

[Idylwyld]

As for the siege option it already exists, it just requires 8 or 20 units minimum. I've choked off cities by planting units in all their tiles and running them down. Kind of time consuming and unit expensive though, especially when they counter from another city.

The auction system for resource trading is also a keen idea. Even better, how about after the discovery of Economics or Corporations have a Non-state actor that you can sell excess resources to and buy from without working with other civs directly?

 

[Synthshadow]

in so far as the airport idea......actually factories should make airplanes too.
Same thing with harbors- these are points of transit- not manufacturing facilities. It should be Factories for both airplanes Dock Factories (i forget the name) for building ships.

Are they dry-docks?

 

[ledfan]

Councils are a great idea.

I was thinking along the lines of a actual UN type org. UN could be used to ban nukes, stop a certain war (peacekeeping) etc. Also a diplomatic victory should rely on UN approval, if ya annoy the UN you dont get good world opinion. e.g. I the UN ask you pull troops out of an area, which I would like to see as one of UN functions, and you dont they condemm your civ.....

From this two (maybe more) paths/choices could be made. the path of democracy and free speech, or dictatorship and genocide.... Each one with its advantages and disadvantages. e.g if you just overran a civ and their poppulace wasnt happy- rebellions/revolts- you could order troops to kill a whole bunch of 'x' civ's citizens to make them behave, but you would really p*ss the UN off and make world opinion turn against you....

just a couple of my ideas

 

[ledfan]

in so far as the airport idea......actually factories should make airplanes too.
Same thing with harbors- these are points of transit- not manufacturing facilities. It should be Factories for both airplanes Dock Factories (i forget the name) for building ships.

this would make trade embargos potentialy much more effective, which was one prob in civ 3 (i thought)

 

[bundy]

in so far as the airport idea......actually factories should make airplanes too.
Same thing with harbors- these are points of transit- not manufacturing facilities. It should be Factories for both airplanes Dock Factories (i forget the name) for building ships.

Yes, I pointed that in 10th proposal! i think that factories will be the most significant improvment

 

[Crazy Eddy]

Councils are a great idea.

I was thinking along the lines of a actual UN type org. UN could be used to ban nukes, stop a certain war (peacekeeping) etc. Also a diplomatic victory should rely on UN approval, if ya annoy the UN you dont get good world opinion. e.g. I the UN ask you pull troops out of an area, which I would like to see as one of UN functions, and you dont they condemm your civ.....

From this two (maybe more) paths/choices could be made. the path of democracy and free speech, or dictatorship and genocide.... Each one with its advantages and disadvantages. e.g if you just overran a civ and their poppulace wasnt happy- rebellions/revolts- you could order troops to kill a whole bunch of 'x' civ's citizens to make them behave, but you would really p*ss the UN off and make world opinion turn against you....

just a couple of my ideas

Wouldnt that be a little hard to program because of the complexity of it?

 

[ledfan]

Which? the UN or the democracy/dictatorship one? I guess you mean UN

I'm not sure how hard the UN would be to program, maybe have it like the senate in Civ 2, but on a global scale? You could program the UN to intervene if 2 nations at war were killing too many civilians, which would be an if function in the programming... though, again, i'm not sure because i've only used C++ to program simple software codes before.

 

[bundy]

Councils are a great idea.

I was thinking along the lines of a actual UN type org. UN could be used to ban nukes, stop a certain war (peacekeeping) etc. Also a diplomatic victory should rely on UN approval, if ya annoy the UN you dont get good world opinion. e.g. I the UN ask you pull troops out of an area, which I would like to see as one of UN functions, and you dont they condemm your civ.....

From this two (maybe more) paths/choices could be made. the path of democracy and free speech, or dictatorship and genocide.... Each one with its advantages and disadvantages. e.g if you just overran a civ and their poppulace wasnt happy- rebellions/revolts- you could order troops to kill a whole bunch of 'x' civ's citizens to make them behave, but you would really p*ss the UN off and make world opinion turn against you....

just a couple of my ideas

Those are gret ideas! generally, i think that your actions should have more implications on future. (if it is ovious that you are trying to conquer whole continent(like Hitler in 1938) ,your other neighbours should arm themseelf better.) Or if you are producing airplanes rapidly your enemies should develop more sam batteries, etc.............

 

[Ballazic]

Ya but no

 

[ledfan]

ya but no?

Care to give a reason why you wouldnt like these ideas? with people saying the modern age should be removed because the gameplay is bad, this would be a great way to improve it. It would definatly change the gameplay from the standard medival ages tactic off grab all you can, and youve basically won the game..

 

[bundy]

I suspected some better answers