Hall of Fame games
- Thread starter Buttercup
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templar_x
usually walks his talks
wins like this one rely very much on the topography [Edit] of the start. so if you are ready to try really really many rolls and starts, sure, go ahead.
t_x
t_x
PaperBeetle
Emperor
Although Civ3 maps do have 3 possible topolgies, I think!
PaperBeetle
Emperor
I haven't studied this style of game in detail, but as I understand it, it's all about (a) getting a start with some good food, (b) cranking out a couple of jaguars super-fast with whips (possibly including joining your worker to the capital for extra whip victims), (c) running the jaguars straight to the AI capitals, which are relatively nearby, and (d) defeating the defenders.
So there's plenty of ways it can go wrong...
(a) no trouble there, if you used MapFinder to get the perfect start,
(b) no trouble there either. Your're not researching, so all commerce can go to the lux slider, and you'll also be in GA as soon as one of your jags has made a kill,
(c) the AI might be a bit far away, or you might choose the wrong directions to send your jags,
(d) you are quite likely to fail in your attacks, even though the AI is only defending with axes (because you picked AI without Bronze in the game setup).
If it goes wrong at any point, well that's only 10 minutes wasted; roll up a new start!
So it's a highly specialised set-up / routine, and not my cup of tea.
But it does remind me somewhat of the Civ:Rev Game of the Week. This was a game start published by Firaxis themselves, where repeat play and submission of the same game was specifically allowed.
So to some players it became a kind of puzzle to find the optimal route to each AI capital, with complete knowledge of the map, and even of how the combat results would fall out! Military wins were often less than 10 turns iirc, even on higher difficulty levels.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
Whipping and high food does not really play such a big role. What you need is 2 tiles in the immediate city radius that give you 2 shields, technically these can be forests, and a tile that gives you 1 shield, typically the city center. You found your city, join the worker and ... you are making 5 shields per turn. Jaguar Warriors only cost 10 shields in C3 and PTW and so you produce a new Jag every other turn.
The rest of the story is that your neighbors are very close and that you have incredible combat luck.
ETA: Although, I haven't looked at this specific game either.
The rest of the story is that your neighbors are very close and that you have incredible combat luck.
ETA: Although, I haven't looked at this specific game either.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
OK, I had a look at the game. And yes, it probably is as I said. This is how things look when you load the 4000bc save, found on the spot, join the worker and work the two forests:
Once you have your golden age you can afford to work that wheat half of the time and still get a Jag every other turn.
Spoiler :
Once you have your golden age you can afford to work that wheat half of the time and still get a Jag every other turn.
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templar_x
usually walks his talks
yes of course. changed it - one should never give smart advice when in a hurry.Why doesn't the hall of fame differentiate between all the different options available to the player?
Surely an Archipeligo Domination is a slightly different kettle of fish to a lucky Pangea with no islands?
Let alone Barbarian settings, AI aggression, how many opponents, planet age, water ratio etc etc etc?
Surely an Archipeligo Domination is a slightly different kettle of fish to a lucky Pangea with no islands?
Let alone Barbarian settings, AI aggression, how many opponents, planet age, water ratio etc etc etc?
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
There is a thread for these questions. It is you best bet to get an answer:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110496
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=110496
Ok, I am 1 turn from completing my spaceship on archepelago large emperor raging barbarians normal ai aggression map unseen no reloads in 1896. I declined a UN vote many turns ago.playing as the dutch.
Is that a hall of fame game?
I haven't checked my points yet and not ended the game but i was hailed as the happiest civ at one point which bodes well for points.
???
Is that a hall of fame game?
I haven't checked my points yet and not ended the game but i was hailed as the happiest civ at one point which bodes well for points.
???
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
The table is here:
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/index.php?condition=Spaceship&mapSize=Large&submit=Go
Your game would chart as sixth on the Large/Emporer/Spaceship table. Once you get a HoF account, there is also an online utility that allows you to make a settings check:
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/user_4000bc.php
(You need to have an account and be logged in)
What you describe sounds ok, so far.
And don't worry about the score too much, that is only the tiebreaker if two games have the same finish date.
Well, I've submitted the game. My score was indeed better than the guys who finished a century/century and a half before me. I scored around 3500 points.
The only objection I can see forthcoming is that I had no idea you needed to save the game at specific dates. It would be a shame to be invalidated this way as I had no idea I was about to play a game which would get me on the lists! I've sent loads of saves anyway so hopefully it'll do
Any future peacocking by myself (or grumbling about it's rejection) can now be firmly attributed to (blamed on) Spoonwood for nagging me to have a go!
The only objection I can see forthcoming is that I had no idea you needed to save the game at specific dates. It would be a shame to be invalidated this way as I had no idea I was about to play a game which would get me on the lists! I've sent loads of saves anyway so hopefully it'll do
Any future peacocking by myself (or grumbling about it's rejection) can now be firmly attributed to (blamed on) Spoonwood for nagging me to have a go!
del62
Deity
If you have auto saves on you will have the 4000bc save.
You need to submit this though its size means you will probably have to load it and save it.
You need to submit this though its size means you will probably have to load it and save it.
I don't have the atuosaves feature turned on, it clogs my save files too quickly.
Following on from my space victory, I thought I'd load up some Huge Cheiftans in order to experiment with getting my completion date a bit earlier. I see from the HoF games that one person has achieved a space victory on a Huge Cheiftan at 760AD, another around 1000AD and two more around 12/1300AD then the next one is much much later.
Shouldn't be too hard, I thought.
However, I've now tried the Greeks (Scientific, Commercial), the Russians (Scientific Expansionist), the Persians (Scientific, Industrial) and in each case my time-line seems to be identical via different routes...
550BC - complete Ancient techs
50BC-50ad - first Universities go up
300AD - Banking learned
750AD - Railroad starts being learned
And then my teching collapses into 7/8 turns per tech and I have no hope of catching even the 1200AD completion times, let alone the two surprisingly early finish times.
I noticed that the reason for this is that:
Theory of Gravity = abt 2500 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 4 turns)
Railroad = abt 5000 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 8 turns)
Electricity = abt 6000 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 10 turns)
My Capitol has huge teching value with the two extra-science Wonders, but this only takes 1 turn off my teching. Wonders are useful as they help pay for improvements, just like Wall Street does, so it's even possible to get Science to 100% at some point, but by that point techs must be costing close to 10,000+
I've tried my best not to build any unvital buildings, but once the first Libraries go up then Science has to come down to at best 90% in order to leave some cash to buy the Science improving buildings. Then there's happiness which often requires at least 10% or 20% in order to keep all those out-lying cities happy and productive. It's possible to squeeze without any dedication to luxury but it means three or four cities succumb to riots every turn as they expand and then growth is slowed because I'm creating Entertainers to save the % bar.
The problem with going over 20 Cities is that:
1. Any further towns have almost pointless crippling Corruption
2. I run out of decent land to build on, leaving new towns destined for Desert, Tundra, Oceans (Oceans ok if you can afford to buy them big), Mountains
3. Without spending an hour on each turn it's very insane-inducing keeping track of every time the AI jumbles around my Worked Tiles every time the population changes or the Borders Expand
4. Creating more towns, say attempting 50-100 working towns, leaves overall Beaker production low because so many core towns have to keep shrinking and not have any time to either grow or produce Beaker-enhancing Buildings.
5. Having 50-100 working towns is absolutely crippling on the eyes as the screen constantly flicks between all of them. For war this is fine as I don't care what happens in my extra cities but for a space game attempting to manage 50-100 towns 'properly' is what I would describe as 'chronic'.
So, what am I doing wrong?
Is it just a matter of building more towns? and if so, what is the optimum target? At what number can I consider that I have enough to get me to Superconductors? Or is it something else that I'm missing?
Following on from my space victory, I thought I'd load up some Huge Cheiftans in order to experiment with getting my completion date a bit earlier. I see from the HoF games that one person has achieved a space victory on a Huge Cheiftan at 760AD, another around 1000AD and two more around 12/1300AD then the next one is much much later.
Shouldn't be too hard, I thought.
However, I've now tried the Greeks (Scientific, Commercial), the Russians (Scientific Expansionist), the Persians (Scientific, Industrial) and in each case my time-line seems to be identical via different routes...
550BC - complete Ancient techs
50BC-50ad - first Universities go up
300AD - Banking learned
750AD - Railroad starts being learned
And then my teching collapses into 7/8 turns per tech and I have no hope of catching even the 1200AD completion times, let alone the two surprisingly early finish times.
I noticed that the reason for this is that:
Theory of Gravity = abt 2500 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 4 turns)
Railroad = abt 5000 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 8 turns)
Electricity = abt 6000 Beakers (20 Cities @ 30 Beakers = 10 turns)
My Capitol has huge teching value with the two extra-science Wonders, but this only takes 1 turn off my teching. Wonders are useful as they help pay for improvements, just like Wall Street does, so it's even possible to get Science to 100% at some point, but by that point techs must be costing close to 10,000+
I've tried my best not to build any unvital buildings, but once the first Libraries go up then Science has to come down to at best 90% in order to leave some cash to buy the Science improving buildings. Then there's happiness which often requires at least 10% or 20% in order to keep all those out-lying cities happy and productive. It's possible to squeeze without any dedication to luxury but it means three or four cities succumb to riots every turn as they expand and then growth is slowed because I'm creating Entertainers to save the % bar.
The problem with going over 20 Cities is that:
1. Any further towns have almost pointless crippling Corruption
2. I run out of decent land to build on, leaving new towns destined for Desert, Tundra, Oceans (Oceans ok if you can afford to buy them big), Mountains
3. Without spending an hour on each turn it's very insane-inducing keeping track of every time the AI jumbles around my Worked Tiles every time the population changes or the Borders Expand
4. Creating more towns, say attempting 50-100 working towns, leaves overall Beaker production low because so many core towns have to keep shrinking and not have any time to either grow or produce Beaker-enhancing Buildings.
5. Having 50-100 working towns is absolutely crippling on the eyes as the screen constantly flicks between all of them. For war this is fine as I don't care what happens in my extra cities but for a space game attempting to manage 50-100 towns 'properly' is what I would describe as 'chronic'.
So, what am I doing wrong?
Is it just a matter of building more towns? and if so, what is the optimum target? At what number can I consider that I have enough to get me to Superconductors? Or is it something else that I'm missing?
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
One of the first things is that Russia definitely is the best civ for a Chief/Huge/Spaceship. Barbarian setting is Sedentary. Now as Russia you'll build several scouts in order to reap all those goody huts and quickly meet other civs. Pretty much all of your ancient age research will come from goody huts, although you might want to research some techs the normal way in order to have a few shots at SGLs.
With just a little bit of luck, you'll enter the Middle Ages in about 2000BC.
Wrt to expansion ... Getting a free settler is very convenient. Make sure that you are eligible to actually get one, i.e. you are at or below the global average number of cities, you have no settler active and no settler in production. While you have a settler active you can still get a free town, though. So, optimally you get both, a free settler and a free town before you have built any settlers.
Getting an SGL early is also very important. You kind of have to try to hedge your bets and adjust your real research to your goody hut research and vice versa. I would probably select my 'opponents' so that there are no religious civs on the map, and then research Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Philosophy and take the Republic for free. Those are four shots at getting an SGL in the Ancient Age. Needless to say, that if you get an SGL you'll use it on the Pyramids.
That said, you need to keep on expanding. Once you have so many towns that they are corrupt you'll have to make Science Farms as well as you can. Smaller ones, larger ones, tiny ones with just one geek. The answer to the question "How many cities do I need?" is not a number; it is rather "Get as many cities as you can and as you need", being able to research Robotics (that is the most expensive tech, right?) in four turns should be your objective. Science Farms don't really need any improvements. Although, in some cases a Lib is not wrong or there is enough food to warrant an Aqueduct.
Keeping your people happy ... well, look out for luxuries. Preferably within easy reach, otherwise scrutinize the coast lines of your continent for luxuries (and crucial resources) that are on the coast or just one tile in. Then send out a galley, caravel, or what have you laden with a settler and maybe a worker to settle these spots. Just settle right on a luxury or resource if it is on the coast. The town needs a harbour, but otherwise you can just turn the one laborer into a geek, put the city on wealth and forget about it.
If you don't have enough luxuries to keep your people happy, don't be shy to hire geeks. Three beakers isn't so bad.
Otherwise there is of course the lux slider. On Chieftain with 10% lux you can get a lot of people happy.
The timing of your golden age is also kind of important. Early middle ages is ideal, although that is not always manageable. In the end, try to get a good bang out of it and not to waste it.
You know how the age change tech trick works, right?
(I hope that^^^ makes some sense.)
ETA: This thread could be very helpful:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=392651&page=4
That's the Oct/Nov 2010 gauntlet: Chieftain, Large, Spaceship
You're doing a great analysis of self-research. Another way to increase self-research is to build a science farm (more on that below), but I believe that the really early finishers also leveraged the AI. How, you may ask, when the Chieftain AI are researching at a snail's pace? I remember reading Dave McW's account of his incredibly early spaceship launch. He chose other scientific tribes as opponents, which all get a free tech when the age changes. He traded aggressively in the ancient age, and even gifted the AI some techs to get them to change ages, when he could trade their techs as well. I've also read a strategy article (have to find the link) which notes that the beaker cost for researching certain techs is reduced when more tribes know them.
Science farms: these are groups -- often numbering in the dozens -- of small, relatively unimproved cities. Yes, they're hopelessly corrupt, but you're not counting on them to produce beakers via citizens working the land. You irrigate the land around them, so that railed grasslands produce 4 food and then convert citizens to scientists. Beakers from specialist citizens are *not* subject to corruption. Science farm towns are packed in, CxCxC, and they don't grow big enough to have happiness problems. Trade for luxuries; you may find the AI will give you a wines for 20 turns in return for a wonder-enabling tech ... even *after* you've built the wonder
The little towns may not get *any* buildings - a harbor if coastal, maybe a marketplace for the happiness multiplier. They will produce 1 shield per turn; set it to wealth or pop out workers.
vorlon_mi said:
Basically all of the fastest diplomatic and spaceship games at all levels involve pre-selected scientific opponents and gifting at age changes for their techs.
Lord Emsworth has excellent advice here (and usually has excellent advice in general).
