Help with early turns?

[thefran]

Hello. I'm new to Civilization series - started with V, <20 hours played. More familiar with Galactic Civilizations.

After getting hold of the controls on Warlord, I am starting to tackle Prince. I don't even play part first 50 turns because it's obvious I'm doing something wrong. Constantly out-teched, score in the lower half. There seems to be some problem with my tech order (I don't have one) and with my city-building choice, I tend to only search for spots that have at least one food resource and one other resource I don't yet have, those are almost always snatched from me if I don't go Liberty (and I don't often go Liberty, I have barbarian infestations to deal with), but even if I claim them, they lag behind (40 turns building monuments, etc) and also tend to be near the enemy borders, resulting in a DoW like two turns later.

What do?

 

[Crimefighter]

The early turns are actually my favorite time

Dont be discouraged - Part of the challenge of the game is balancing your expansion with your military strength. I tend to go for city spots with lots of luxuries close by to help keep happiness up while my Civ expands, but your tactics may vary - part of the fun is deciding how you want to expand and in which direction. You need to think about proximity of coastlines for trade, chokepoints for defense, luxuries for happiness, horses for unit production, and so on. Its all part of the game.

Cities do tend to start developing slowly - you wont see them becoming really productive until they reach size 5 or so. In the meantime, keep enough military going to fend of Barbarians. I normally go with at least 2 units (typically a warrior and a scout) per city for safety.

With regards to tech, have a look at the tree and work out what would benefit your Civ the most. If your capital is near some cows/sheep - go after Animal Husbandry. If you next to stone/marble - go for mining/masonry (or whatever that tech is that allows you to build a quarry).

Anyway lots of help available on these forums so GLHF!

 

[snarzberry]

A simple early plan that is good in almost any spot is to tech

Pottery - writing - resources - philosophy (throw in animal husbandry and/or mining if required)

Build something like

Scout - monument - granary/worker (if you don't want to nick one from a CS) - library/settler - national college

If you take liberty - collective rule then you can plant the early city and build library straight away. Experiment with using your first 310 gold to purchase a worker. Sell open borders, find city states and even take out an early loan to get it done asap. Then use the liberty worker and your built/bought/stolen workers to improve resources, sell at least one and you can often rush buy the library in the third city for quick access to the NC. Any time you have extra in between, such as waiting for a library to be constructed you can use to spit out a couple of military units.

If at any time during your initial phase you are dowed then switch immediately into archery and be prepared to rush buy an archer or two to hold off invasions. Aim to have the NC built, in this 3 city (2 if not going liberty) style by the mid 60's on standard.

This is just one approach but it's a solid start to learning the early game.

 

[joshua43214]

^^ +1

This is just one approach but it's a solid start to learning the early game.

this build will keep you out of trouble and going in the right direction.
Try doing this with random settings to get a feel for how each civ plays, and how each civs reacts to you. Just play out the first 50ish - 80ish turns and reroll

 

[thefran]

if you don't want to nick one from a CS

???

Am I expected to DoW a CS, claim their worker, then make peace next turn? I sometimes steal other people's workers from barbarians.

Cities do tend to start developing slowly - you wont see them becoming really productive until they reach size 5 or so

What do I build in them then while the buildings still take 20+ turns?

 

[The Pilgrim]

Am I expected to DoW a CS, claim their worker, then make peace next turn? I sometimes steal other people's workers from barbarians.

You may do that. Just don't DoW more than once. You'll get diplo penalty and CS's will start declare permanent war on you. Although it's not really necessary and definitely not crucial on prince. Building one is just as good.

What do I build in them then while the buildings still take 20+ turns?

You watch them building stuff for 20 turns. That's fine. You can chop some forests to speed things up. In newly settled cities you usually should build a monument+granary+library. Not necessarily in this order. As snarzberry says, if you successfully sold your resources you can rush buy a library in second/third city and start working on National College in the capital when the rest of the cities finish monuments/granaries and whatever else they need. Also try to build pastures in small cities as soon as you can (after hooking up luxury resources), those tiles give you both food and production.

 

[Realyn]

In newly settled cities you usually should build a monument+granary+library. Not necessarily in this order.

Don't agree on that. Especially on the library. A typical third or fourth city won't grow very large fast. Lets say it reaches size 5 .. thats two science at all.

My order would be: monument-factory/workshop/windmill/horse,cow and iron improvment-happyness buildings-food buildings(granary only with weath or deer)science and other cultur buildings.

@the OP. The National College start is very popular here. Personally I don't like it all and every deity VidLP I have seen so far ended the same way: The leading AI overruning the player with more landmass/units. I'm pretty sure it works on small maps set to fast speed everytime, but besiedes those ...
So yeah ... you just have to find your own style. Check out the strategy board, play some games without reloading and analyze your mistakes. Best way to learn .

edit: You said you have a problem with cities building a monument for 40 turns. I often set a newly found city to work a 2h1g tile, just to finish the monument. Or work gems with 3h3g to finish a water mill and grow just then. I'm running a LP right new, maybe it helps you out.

 

[tetley]

If Prince is owning you, try Warlord and roll for a sucky start. And go to Advanced Settings and click "Raging Barbarians". I prefer Raging Barbs myself anyway, because it's more fun. It's a pretty decent bump in difficulty from Warlord to Prince, so you may want to try bumping it a half-level by rolling for a sorry start. The Raging Barbarians option (besides it just being fun) is to help you learn faster. And the barbs aren't so bad on Warlord.

p.s. Good choice with Galactic Civilizations. GCII:Twilight of the Arnor rules. Awesomest turn-based strategy game ever.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Don't agree on that. Especially on the library. A typical third or fourth city won't grow very large fast. Lets say it reaches size 5 .. thats two science at all.

I'm talking about cities settled prior NC. After that it's a different story. However you still need the libraries for universities. As you mostly play for 'culture' you don't care about that stuff too much and push your science through high pop (for OP, he doesn't really play for culture. He's bloodthirsty warmonger beast ). When I play for 'culture' I rarely build more than 2-3 libraries. In core cities only. I also don't annex much. Too cheesy for me. But here a newcomer tries to learn the basics and NC start is a solid strategy you cannot get wrong with.

factory

Getting Steam Power and Scientific Theory from ruins?

 

[thefran]

> If Prince is owning you, try Warlord and roll for a sucky start

Nah, if there's something other 4x games taught me, it's being familiar with lower difficulties inflicts bad habits upon the player.

> 'm pretty sure it works on small maps set to fast speed everytime

I don't usually play larger than standard, not that my laptop would handle it anyway

 

[limitedwhole]

Hello. I'm new to Civilization series - started with V, <20 hours played. More familiar with Galactic Civilizations.

After getting hold of the controls on Warlord, I am starting to tackle Prince. I don't even play part first 50 turns because it's obvious I'm doing something wrong. Constantly out-teched, score in the lower half. There seems to be some problem with my tech order (I don't have one) and with my city-building choice, I tend to only search for spots that have at least one food resource and one other resource I don't yet have, those are almost always snatched from me if I don't go Liberty (and I don't often go Liberty, I have barbarian infestations to deal with), but even if I claim them, they lag behind (40 turns building monuments, etc) and also tend to be near the enemy borders, resulting in a DoW like two turns later.

What do?

For starters don't worry too much about winning. Thats more for deity level where you pretty much have to pick a path and go for it 100% or you will lose. You focus on maintaining a nice civilization. I think avoiding wonder whoring is good as most good wonder starts require relly good starting positions and reloading for starting position can be fun occasionally but is mostly boring. The key to any early civ game is appraisal. You need to find out where you are and what the best path forward is. How many settlers are you going to need? How many luxuries can you grab? Who are your enemies and what are their abilities. How many troops will I need. The key here is scouting. Cue up 2 scouts to start with. This will get you good bonuses from ruins and will give you the key information you need to know. They will also ultimately help you contact civs further away who will not be as hostile to you which is important. Mining is a good first tech if you have allot of tree around and/or stone and marble. Horses are very good tiles to work and let you build circuses and animal husbandry upgraded many good tiles. Pottery leads into the very powerful philosophy direction. Archery gives you strong defensive units. Whenever you select a city site ask yourself what is this city going to be for. Is it food heavy and production light? Then it would be a great place for early specialists but you will have a hard time building allot of buildings or troops there. Is is production heavy? Then it would make a good troop center, etc. Rather than rush through the first 50 turns take a breath and take it slow. This is the foundation of a great empire. Take the time to survery and appraise your land and what resources you have at your disposal. There really aren't any must have wonders or must settle locations. Even porcelain tower can sometimes be weak and unnescessary. The reason people emphasize it is because it has teh potential to be explosive and help you cautch teh A.I. on hard difficulties. Just take your time and enjoy the game as you play. Enjoy each and every turn and you will start getting good at civ. If you fall into the trap of just hitting the next turn button over and over because you are impatient for something to be built of to get to a certain tech you will overlook allot of things.

Good scouting is equal to sucess in civ. Send out your warrior and double back when your worker is being completed. Build two scouts and send them out. Toss in a military unit now and again to make sure you are protected. Post them on hills to prevent barbarian huts from spawning. Sometimes barbarians can be your friends. There may be a choice spot you don't want to settle just yet. By leaving teh barbarians there they are an inhibitor to your opponent settling there.

Brian

 

[The Pilgrim]

Nah, if there's something other 4x games taught me, it's being familiar with lower difficulties inflicts bad habits upon the player.

That's right attitude. If you want to learn then learn how to play right, the difficulty doesn't matter as much. It mainly determines the amount of mistakes you can get away with. You still want to minimize this number at any level you play.

 

[Syailendra]

Do try to build the city on a range of riverside hills if you can find one, do farm and mine on them, and try to micromanage your citizens in that city. you'll learn that it's not mere numbers of citizens inside a city that is important, but also what are those citizens doing. Remember that too much farmer will only deliver more mouths to feed and give you happiness problem in the long run.