How about peace for a change

I don't know if it's feasible a small war against Russians. Just to take control of Osaka, Rostov and Minsk. I would like to raze Riga too.

Then if think we should go peacefully. And build roads, mines, Temples, Market Places and CourtHouses.

I want to be the greatest economy to support a huge army and dominate the world.
 
I don't think Fionn is suggesting that we totally abandon all production of military units, and as Cyc as already stated, he is certainly not proposing we abandon our infrastructure.

What we need to do is come to a healthy and productive compromise. Cyc's plan has a lot going for it, but I also agree that sacrificing the partial production of Universities in some of those cities would be a shame. We're going to need those Universities if we are ever going to out-research our rivals, and the cultural benefits they provide are desperately needed now to prevent our cities from pledging allegiance with our more culturally advanced neighbors.

I believe we must follow a modified version of Cyc's Plan A if we are to leave this term stronger and better off than we are today. We should continue to produce the Libraries and Universities that are in production, we should produce a few workers as well to make our cities more productive, and we must also start to produce these critical military units as soon as possible. The facts are that if we abandon any one of these tasks, we will be a weaker nation as a result.
 
Jesus, 40J. There will be no abandoning of partially completed Universities. Should I reprint "PLAN A" here for you too? I had to spell it out again for Stuck in the same thread I originally posted it in. Now your misquoting it in another thread. Hard to believe.
 
I do not consider scientific buildings constructed for actual science production to be a realistic goal. At our difficulty level there are simply too many negatives to researching for ourselves. There is no way we can compete against the AI on direct research and their inter-trading bonuses make it that much worse. It is financial suicide to do our own research.

On the other hand, universities and other scientific buildings are excellent for culture and it's true that we are lagging behind the big boys in this regard. That's normal for a warmongering civ and we're actually a bit more culturally advanced than I would be if I were playing this game by myself. Then again, we have a much smaller army than I would have at this point.

In short, science for culture is a valid argument. Science for research isn't.
 
Originally posted by Cyc
Then let everything run its present course, completing what is queued up. As the cities listed below complete their current task, switch them to the following queue:
I guess I must've missed this sentence when I read it the first few thousand times I perused your plan.... I apologize for misrepresenting your proposal.
 
Apology accepted, 40J. I seem to be running on a short fuse of late. I'm sorry, too.
 
Originally posted by FionnMcCumhall
i dont want wars or even talk of them, i just want to see peace and peacetime building, improvements, and maybe 10% devoted to making defensive ONLY units

You may not want them but if we neglect our military by devoting only 10% of our productive capability to it then you will certainly get war. Take a look at the save and see just how many foreign units are walking around inside or very near to Fanatika. We will have wars whether we start them or not. It is in our best interests to pick our targets. We can do that or we can be someone else's target.

The time for us to take a breather and concentrate more on infrastructure will be when our neighbors have infantry and we do not have tanks. (Please note: I am not saying we should build nothing but military until then.) We have a target or two that our knights will be effective against. If we manage things right we'll be able to use cavalry against our main threat (Babylon). After that we can put wars on hold till we get Panzers.
 
Hmmmm.. I agree with Fionn's sentiments (if not his arguments) we need infrastructure to support our military (even moving units on roadless terrain is a hasle) As many, many polls, discussions, chat logs and rpg threads have stated: we are, like it or not, a warmongering naiton, period.
What we need to do is build towards that, not against it. If we are destined to have a strong military, lets have the infrastructure to support it, not just the cities to support units, as Amirsan stated. Units, to be effective, need roads to rapidly move from one part of the empire to the other, they also need gold to be supported, that means we must get our techs and luxuries elsewhere, here is where trade comes in. Now, expansion for it's own sake is folly, if we plan to take every piece of jungle in hopes of aquiring rubber later on in the game then an endless war could very well be our history on this land. We already have the largest empire, let's see if those resourses fall within our borders (they most likely will) if not, we shall deal with the problem when it arrives... we are living in the future, building panzers and looking for the resourses needed for them long before their time.
If we also plan on concentrating most of the building time on military units, then we must defend our cities from foreign culture to avoid flipping. Universities, libraries, temples... all of these help our military plans by preserving the territory our armies have gained, therefor they should be, and are, inside the budget.

As I stated earlier, if we plan to warmonger, we should do it right, and not just take territory that can be easily taken back by their previous owners, or someone else.

Ehecatl Atzin
 
there it is again. lets wait til we have this to stop and take a breathe or build as it stands. How many times are we going to stop and say no no lets wait til we have infantry and they have tanks or lets wait. then it becomes oh wait they have tanks lets wait til we have tanks til we build up our infrastructure. PEOPLE we have enough cities. 46 is enough to build us up to a superpower. You get those cities up to their full potential and we can turn out units every 2 to 3 turns by the time we have finished the industrial age.
 
I must admit I'm on the fence on this issue, I see the benefits for a war, but I'm also fearful for our lack of cultural and Domestic base. I know that the Babs and the Americans WILL be wiped off the face of the world if I have my say, but we need a building period and I'm uncertian if that period should be NOW or after another short war. even if we do go for a war first, we MUST comit ourselves to a period of building after that war.
 
we wont thats the problem, all i keep hearing is wait and see, or just one more war, lets have the period of building now!
 
I say never stop warring. There's no need to. We can build infrastructure at the same time we engage in armed conflict. Cyc's plan does this very well, actually. We will not achieve domination unless we are constantly at war. This is a monstrous map with too many civs on a high difficulty. There is no option to rest on our laurels.
 
I'm tired of this whining. It's time to put the numbers up. Here is a list of all our cities, the # of shields per turn each generates, the improvements each has and what each is working on. Y signifies that the city has that improvement, N that it doesn't and a number shows that the improvement is being worked on and the number of turns left till completion.

Code:
[COLOR=blue]
City                spt   lib   temp   univ   mkt  barr  aqu   gran  Other
  
Bremershaven         15    Y     N       1     N     Y    Y      N
Bavaria               9    5     N       N     Y     Y   n/a     Y   Heroic Epic. palace
Kells                 9    Y     Y       N     4     N    N      N
Kyoto                 9    Y     Y       N     6     Y   n/a     N   Forbidden Palace
Naerva                9    Y     N       Y     N     Y    N      Y   Coloseum in 1
The Burrow            9    Y     Y       1     N     Y    N      N
Valhalla              9    Y     Y       Y    10     N    N      Y   Harbor
Kukhaff               7    Y     Y       N     N     1    Y      N
Morgana               7    Y     N       8     N     Y    N      N   Harbor
Nara                  7    Y     N       N     N     N    N      N   Pikemen in 3
Octavinium            7    Y     Y       N    12     Y   n/a     Y   Courthouse
Tlaxcala              7    Y     N       N     N     Y    N      Y   catapult in 1 
Tokyo                 7    Y     N       N     N     N    N      N   knight in 1
New Falcon's Nest     6    Y     N       N     N     Y    N      N   knight in 12
Plexenburg            6    Y     N       N     4     N    N      N
Serenity              6    N     N       N     7     Y   n/a     N
Androbius             5    Y     N       Y    16     N    N      N
Gunningheim           5    Y     Y      10     N     Y    N      Y
Palanthus             5    Y     Y       N     N     Y   n/a     N   Courthouse in 15
Pensacola             5    Y     N       N     N     N    N      N   pikemen in 2
Strider's Haven       5    Y     Y       N    19     Y    N      N
Eklektochtitlan       4    Y     N       N     N     N   n/a    12
Hakodate              4    1     N       N     N     N    N      N
Kagoshima             4    8     N       N     N     N    N      N
Nocsfiedera           4    Y     Y       N     N     N    N      N   catapult in 3
Padmativa             4    Y     6       N     N     N    N      N
Civanatoria           3    Y     N       N     N     N    N      N   catapult in 5
Curenavaca            3    Y     4       N     N     N    N      N
Dacula                3    Y     N       N     N     N    N      N   Courthouse in 5
New PDX               3    Y    16       N     N     Y    N      N
Sturmandrang          3    Y     8       N     N     Y    N      N   Walls
Tarkingrad            3    Y     Y       N     N     Y    N      N   worker in 3
Cleveland             2    6     N       N     N     N    N      N
Dapperdan             2    Y     Y       N     N     N    N      N   Walls in 3
Leningrado            2    Y    22       N     N     N    N      N
Shimonoseki           2    N     N       N     N     N    N     30
Goonidom              1   33     N       N     N     N    N      N
Grandmastoria         1   10     N       N     N     N    N      N
Huntington            1    Y     N       N     N    13    N      N   Walls
Ise                   1    N     N       N     N     Y    N      N   worker in 9
Novgorod              1    N     N       N     N     N    N      N   worker in 8
Penguin               1    Y    52       N     N     N    N      N   Harbor
Toyama                1   37     N       N     N     N    N      N
Trader's Inn          1    N     N       N     N     N    N      N   pikemen in 11
Yokohama              1   30     N       N     N     N    N      N
Zorgonzolia           1    N     N       N     N     N   n/a     N   pikemen in 12
[/COLOR]

Our total shield per turn (spt) production is 210.

Here is the breakdown of our current production, by city and spt:

Code:
[COLOR=blue]
Current project       # of cities     % of cities      # of spt      % of spt

temple                       6           13.0%             16          7.6%
library                      8           17.4%             23         11.0%
university                   4            8.7%             36         17.1%
colosseum                    1            2.2%              9          4.3%

subtotal - culture          19           41.3%             84         40.0%

granary                      2            4.3%              6          2.9%
market                       8           17.4%             56         26.7%
courthouse                   2            4.3%              8          3.8%

subtotal - other city       12           26.0%             70         33.4%

total - city (non-military) 31           67.3%            154         73.4%

walls                        1            2.2%              2          1.0%
barracks                     2            4.3%              8          3.8%

subtotal - city (miltary)    3            6.5%             10          4.8%

regular pikemen              4            8.7%             14          6.7%
regular knights              1            2.2%              7          3.3%
veteran knights              1            2.2%              6          2.9%
catapults                    3            6.5%             14          6.7%

subtotal - military units    9           19.6%             41         19.6%

total military              12           26.1%             51         24.4%

workers                      3            6.5%              5          2.4%

Grand total                 46          100.0%            210        100.0%
[/COLOR]
 
nevermind, i give up, go with plan a, i have very littel support as it is anyways. i just figuered it be nice to go one damn term without a war, just for a change
 
I beleve we should improve on our Culture and Science. We can build Libraries and Universities in cities that do not have these wonderful building :)
 
We are currently devoting only one-quarter of our production to our military and we are using that small amount inefficiently. We're building catapults and only one veteran knight! We're building a barracks in a 1 spt city. We're building regular pikemen.

Even our non-military production seems to have problems. Cities with no culture at all are buiilding workers and pikemen.

We should be splitting our production fifty-fifty between our military and infrastructure.
 
I think 50/50 is much to high. I think close to 25/75 military to infrastructure respectively.
 
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