How can i research at WARP speed???

[SirPleb]

I figured that. But by the time their economy picks up, I'm usually the tech leader through a combination of my own strong research base and beating it out of my neighbors who've neglected their militaries in favor of research and building. So how is this tech brokering thing ever supposed to work?

Ancient Times tech brokering will mostly be for other techs. As already discussed they generally don't have much cash available. But don't forget to take anything you can - the bits of gold you can get will help fuel your research at a higher rate (by allowing you to run at a deficit) and sometimes you can get a worker or two thrown into the deal.

Part of the trick is not to expect too much. Trading Map Making for Horseback Riding may be a good thing. By trading Map Making for Horseback Riding you are:
1) Getting one more tech from them that you won't need to research.
2) Stopping them from wasting time researching Map Making. This is a high priority for them to research. So if you want them learning something which is a useful trade for you, i.e. some other advanced tech, you'll want to give them this one anyway. Might as well get something in return for it. (Better yet, generally don't research this tech. It is one of the more predictable ones to get from an AI.)

If you insist on getting "full value" for your techs the AIs probably won't help you a lot. For a fast pace you're better off trading for what you can get to keep things moving. Your goal is to research as few Ancient Times techs as possible while trading for the others. To accomplish this you have to help Monarch level AIs to be in a position to learn the others - if you are researching quickly they won't learn many before you do unless you help them.

 

[DementedAvenger]

The problem I see with gifting rival Civs technology is that it isn't just the absolute tech pace that matters, it's the relative tech difference (e.g. I'd rather be three techs ahead in the middle ages than one tech ahead in the industrial age). I realize that when you can trade multiple times there is a huge profit to be made, but I just can't bring myself to do something like give other civs republic in exchange for increased trade later on. Better to keep 'em poor and just conquer them imo.

 

[Choffy]

Playing on Emperor, I find it OK to follow the pace of tech discovery during the Ancient Age

-> Go for Philosophy (be the first if possible by adding some scientists if needed, it really helps), then Code of Laws, Map Makings or Republic... The AIs don't research these techs so you will be able to trade them very well and get most of the other techs (even if you research at a low pace after philosophy). You often even need to wait to sell your tech as the AIs can be lagging and having nothing to trade.
-> Explore a lot to trade to max AIs and try to avoid having the AIs meeting each other.

The issue I found is the first half of the Middle Age : I have spent the ancient age expanding my territory by creating many cities and they are still small (only few reached 7 pop). I just switched to Republic and don't have a lot of marketplace and library. Moreover, I often have created an army of horse that I am going to upgrade to Chivalry (cost a lot to upgrade and to maintain in Republic) and have been in war for a while (often even still at war).

How do you manage the beginning of Middle Age (if you are not a scientific civ)?
-> I am not able to research technology quickly. By the time I research a new technology, an AI has always researched it already and traded it to everybody.
-> I also found it to expensive to buy technology (My Republic is not producing enough gold for the moment)

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I figured that. But by the time their economy picks up, I'm usually the tech leader through a combination of my own strong research base and beating it out of my neighbors who've neglected their militaries in favor of research and building. So how is this tech brokering thing ever supposed to work?

Try Sid.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Playing on Emperor, I find it OK to follow the pace of tech discovery during the Ancient Age

-> Go for Philosophy (be the first if possible by adding some scientists if needed, it really helps), then Code of Laws, Map Makings or Republic... The AIs don't research these techs so you will be able to trade them very well and get most of the other techs (even if you research at a low pace after philosophy). You often even need to wait to sell your tech as the AIs can be lagging and having nothing to trade.
-> Explore a lot to trade to max AIs and try to avoid having the AIs meeting each other.

The issue I found is the first half of the Middle Age : I have spent the ancient age expanding my territory by creating many cities and they are still small (only few reached 7 pop). I just switched to Republic and don't have a lot of marketplace and library. Moreover, I often have created an army of horse that I am going to upgrade to Chivalry (cost a lot to upgrade and to maintain in Republic) and have been in war for a while (often even still at war).

How do you manage the beginning of Middle Age (if you are not a scientific civ)?
-> I am not able to research technology quickly. By the time I research a new technology, an AI has always researched it already and traded it to everybody.
-> I also found it to expensive to buy technology (My Republic is not producing enough gold for the moment)

with the knight upgrade, you make yourself a choise. Unless you are going to win the game without ever needing more advanced tech, you will need to keep up in tech. You can spend your income to reasearch or buy your tech.

But if you choose to invest it in units, than you must get your techs trough war. Get them in peace nagotiations.

If you don't think that is gonna be possible, then don't upgrade those horses. Tech is a higher priority unless you think you can win the game with knights.

 

[Keirador]

Maybe its one of the things keeping me on Monarch level, but I just never imagined that trading Republic for Horseback Riding was anything like a good idea. . . tech difference between Civs has always seemed more important than absolute research speed. Of course, I'm usually playing to win, not for the score.

By the way, I noticed it was your first post, Choffy. It seems strange welcoming you, since I'm new myself, but no one else has, so, welcome!
So you're a Frenchman? I certainly couldn't tell from your writing, you know English better than many of my native-tongued friends. I wish my French was as good as your English, mais je suis seulement dans l'ecole secondaire, alors, je crois mon francais sera meilleur. Did that make sense?

 

[SirPleb]

Maybe its one of the things keeping me on Monarch level, but I just never imagined that trading Republic for Horseback Riding was anything like a good idea. . . tech difference between Civs has always seemed more important than absolute research speed.

At higher difficulty levels you have to learn to play from behind in tech. Once you do that for a while you find that tech difference between Civs isn't actually all that important in itself. You can win more easily with a tech lead but it isn't crucial.

The specific techs involved are far more important than the general case of being ahead or behind. E.g. you want to delay an AI you'll be attacking in the early Industrial Age from having Replaceable Parts for as long as possible. But it won't necessarily matter much if they learn Steam Power (might actually be helpful for you), Medicine, The Corporation, and lots of other techs.

Republic is an excellent example of a specific tech. I often give Republic to other Civs for two dramatically different reasons. The most common is to boost their economy so that I can get more from them later on. But there's another interesting case to consider: just before fighting them!

Have you ever been frustrated by the AI pop rushing size two towns to size one just before you reach them? Then you're left with the choice of razing and replacing the town or waiting to capture it until it grows again or grows some culture. If your war is in late Ancient Times there's a nice way to avoid this problem. Gift the Civ Republic a turn before you attack them! They'll flip to Republic on receiving it. When you attack them they'll be in Anarchy or Republic. In either case they can't pop rush. And then you can capture those size two towns after all

When you look at that situation, trading Republic for Horseback Riding is a great deal, because you were prepared to just give Republic away for free anyway.

Another subtle point here: sometimes I would rather give Republic to a rival than trade it for Horseback Riding. Horseback Riding is another special case. Sometimes I would rather deliberately delay learning Horseback Riding so that I can build more 20 shield Chariots for subsequent upgrading, vs. having to start building the more expensive 30 shield Horsemen.

 

[Tomoyo]

Another thing that can happen if you gift a civ Republic: If you are in a tight wonder race, you can try to get them to revolt, maybe getting you the wonder.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

Seems this has turned into trading strats rather than what will the AI research. I'm an idiot (see signature) but what really helped me get comfortable with Emperor and Monarch was several "no research" games. In my limited experience, the human will always get Lit since the AI never seems to research it. you can use Lit to get yourself even with the AI. My $.02

 

[leopalas]

The problem I see with gifting rival Civs technology is that it isn't just the absolute tech pace that matters, it's the relative tech difference (e.g. I'd rather be three techs ahead in the middle ages than one tech ahead in the industrial age). I realize that when you can trade multiple times there is a huge profit to be made, but I just can't bring myself to do something like give other civs republic in exchange for increased trade later on. Better to keep 'em poor and just conquer them imo.

I think in the long term it does make a difference. When you are trying to get some very high scores, for instance playing GOTM or just for your own hall of fame, strategies like those referred by SirPleb are essential. It doesnt matter that the AI is just behind you, or side by side, in tech development. The point is that for you to get the max score is essential that you get to that tech you find crutial for the victory condition you chose for instance, Chilvary or Military tradition if u want a very early Domination/Conquest victory. In the end the AI will never be able to use the knowledge as u do ( the AI just dont use or doesnt know how to use armies and this is only an example ) so let them have all the techs IF that is important for you to get faster to your goal. Believe me, its just so much better in terms of score, when you approach the game the way guys like Sir Pleb, or AlexMan and others do

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

for instance playing GOTM or just for your own hall of fame, strategies like those referred by SirPleb are essential. It doesnt matter that the AI is just behind you, or side by side, in tech development. The point is that for you to get the max score is essential that you get to that tech you find crutial for the victory condition you chose for instance, Chilvary or Military tradition if u want a very early Domination/Conquest victory. In the end the AI will never be able to use the knowledge as u do ( the AI just dont use or doesnt know how to use armies and this is only an example ) so let them have all the techs IF that is important for you to get faster to your goal. Believe me, its just so much better in terms of score, when you approach the game the way guys like Sir Pleb, or AlexMan and others do

Heartily concur. Let me second the welcome to choffy.