dannergreg
Chieftain
Well I am glad that you like my thread. Oh by the way great ideas Whomp. If Sid-howdoyouspellhislastname added that it would be extremly convienent.
How do we handle it all?
- Thread starter dannergreg
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dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I've beat the game at Deity (but not Sid). Since I've done so, however, I seldom play at those levels. It's the wrong kind of challenge. I don't want to play the game where winning hinges on your ability to figure out which square to irrigate first. The only reason I did it the few times I did is because I'm slightly obsessive. It's hard not to get obsessed with a game like Civ. 
What is mechanical? When there IS one right answer and a million wrong answers, that's mechanical. That's the wrong kind of challenge.
Aussie nails it. The mechanical stuff needs to be in there, to some extent. But those mechanical movements need to be subservient to the underlying bigger strategy.
So it's never a question of "how should you handle it -- governors or micromanagement?" The answer is neither. If micromanagement exists, then you HAVE to micromanage in order to get the upper hand. But just because that's the way you HAVE to play, it doesn't mean that's the way the game SHOULD be played.
Empower the player with high level decisions. The focus is that brief.
What is mechanical? When there IS one right answer and a million wrong answers, that's mechanical. That's the wrong kind of challenge.
Aussie nails it. The mechanical stuff needs to be in there, to some extent. But those mechanical movements need to be subservient to the underlying bigger strategy.
So it's never a question of "how should you handle it -- governors or micromanagement?" The answer is neither. If micromanagement exists, then you HAVE to micromanage in order to get the upper hand. But just because that's the way you HAVE to play, it doesn't mean that's the way the game SHOULD be played.
Empower the player with high level decisions. The focus is that brief.
dannergreg
Chieftain
Great speech! So how do you spell his last name? And I still request people to explain their vote.
Rhymes
Drive 4 25 is back
Yep, I think we've reached. So the best solution is like in civ3. Lower difficulty levels for those who would rather have a typical "empire at large" kind of game (forgive my english here 
) and higher difficulty level for those who want to get into a more intellectual/obsessive kinda game... Leave all options possible, it cant hurt.
) and higher difficulty level for those who want to get into a more intellectual/obsessive kinda game... Leave all options possible, it cant hurt.dannergreg
Chieftain
Well yeah they better have those options in Civ4. I wish I could get past the "empire at large" stage. (remember I'm a warlord) I still ask people to explain their vote.
Rhymes
Drive 4 25 is back
??????dannergreg said:
Has anyone not explained?
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I refuse to admit that playing at Deity makes Civilization a more intellectual experience. I refuse to admit that knowing which place to build your road makes you a more intellectual player. But obsessive? Yes.
The closest thing I've seen to making Civ a more intellectual experience is, say, the "Age of Discovery" scenario where you can pursue different high level strategies. You can wipe out your competition... or you can let them live, and win by monopolizing treasures in the new world. Of course, it doesn't go all the way, because it's easy to pursue both at the same time. But I think there's a small amount to be learned from a scenario like this.
The closest thing I've seen to making Civ a more intellectual experience is, say, the "Age of Discovery" scenario where you can pursue different high level strategies. You can wipe out your competition... or you can let them live, and win by monopolizing treasures in the new world. Of course, it doesn't go all the way, because it's easy to pursue both at the same time. But I think there's a small amount to be learned from a scenario like this.
Rhymes
Drive 4 25 is back
@Dh_epic: But dont you agree that to win higher levels you need to put a lot more thoughts into your game?? Come on, I think it is pretty obvious...
dannergreg
Chieftain
Rhymes said:
AndrewH, MarineCorps, Stid, Sub, warpstorm, Baqatun, rlfanqor801, KenScott, majk-iii, naziassbandit, Senqfossil, sennomulo, thescaryworker, Villo, Lockesdonkey, NorthKing, Trade-peror, and ybbor all have not posted.
No you're right, everybody has expained their vote.
BkGreatWarnut
aka "Brian the Great"
I see keep a similiar system of giving players options. Personally, I find it annoying as hell when one of my cities goes into civil disorder simply because I didn't check the number of happy versus angry citizens the previous turn.
However, I have only once automated workers... Everyone can argue one point from the other...bottom line...GIVE PLAYERS OPTIONS to fit the level of involvement they want to put in the game. To me the best part of civ is diplomacy and the Grand Strategy of everything. When to go to war and when to watch peacefully. How do I cripple my enemies (and even friends) abilities to wage war. How do I protect the sovereignty of my state...stuff like that.
However, I have only once automated workers... Everyone can argue one point from the other...bottom line...GIVE PLAYERS OPTIONS to fit the level of involvement they want to put in the game. To me the best part of civ is diplomacy and the Grand Strategy of everything. When to go to war and when to watch peacefully. How do I cripple my enemies (and even friends) abilities to wage war. How do I protect the sovereignty of my state...stuff like that.
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
It's not as simple as "thought". That depends on if you think sorting two different colors of envelopes into two different piles is "intellectual". However, I will grant that if you enjoy it, you might be obsessive.
Options of level of involvement don't work, because obviously the more involved players win. If one of the challenges of the game was typing "Agamemnon" as many times as you can in 60 seconds, someone would do it. Leaving it to a governor to type "Agamemnon" 30 times in 60 seconds isn't a real solution to the problem.
The real solution is to cut the crap out.
Options of level of involvement don't work, because obviously the more involved players win. If one of the challenges of the game was typing "Agamemnon" as many times as you can in 60 seconds, someone would do it. Leaving it to a governor to type "Agamemnon" 30 times in 60 seconds isn't a real solution to the problem.
The real solution is to cut the crap out.
dannergreg
Chieftain
The only time I won't automate my workers is when they have hiden in cities. Then I have them build fortresses all over.
If a feature requires automation (governorization), it maybe should be just ditched alltogether.
Geologists? Hello? The fourth alternative would be "no" to these new concepts.
To quote Searcheagle - Civ is a big picture game.
Civ3 is already too much obvious tedium and little actual decisions.
Whack-a-mole style civil disorders, pollution or boring workering or whatever are inherent design f*ck-ups that need to be get rid of, not automated.
Geologists? Hello? The fourth alternative would be "no" to these new concepts.
To quote Searcheagle - Civ is a big picture game.
Civ3 is already too much obvious tedium and little actual decisions.
Whack-a-mole style civil disorders, pollution or boring workering or whatever are inherent design f*ck-ups that need to be get rid of, not automated.
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