How many Catapults?

[Lil_Yospeck]

When attacking a city, how many catapults do you usually take with you? How many do you sacrifice? Whats the maximum number of collateral units that can be hit? (I THINK it might be 6, but not 100% sure). When I'm campaigning off into enemy territory then sometimes its hard to estimate how many cats to take with me (though I guess you can never really have too many)?

 

[Meester_henk]

I use 3 catapults or trebuchet. Otherwise bombarding takes too much time.

 

[Jedoc]

I usually don't declare war until I have at least five trebs in each Stack of Doom. If I can swing it, I also like to have one or two cats to attack enemy stacks in the field.

I used to stop attacking with siege once I'd lost two trebs, but these days I attack with everything in the stack before sending in my regular units. If fighting an opponent with tech parity, I still lose about two trebs per city, and if luck turns against me it just means declaring peace a city or two earlier than planned.

Then again, I'm a shameless overbuilder, so you may well get away with a smaller siege train.

 

[djvandrake]

I like to take as many as I can. usually 6 or 8. If your opponent is running slavery or nationhood, the dithering around while bombarding the defenses will cost you in having to face two more defending units in the city.

I like to bombard one turn, then the next turn do the collateral damage sacrificing about 3 siege units (if they can withdraw, that's the best and I can use one more). Then it's send in the troops to take the city.

 

[hecubus]

I rarely feel like I bring enough siege. If I bring fewer than 5, I usually regret it, unless I have a massive tech lead and am using cannons or artillery on archery units.

 

[Landmonitor]

I usually burn 3-4 per city I take. I'll "attack" with more, but 3-4 will be either killed or redlined to the point where they will fall too far behind to keep up with the main push. Usually I promote two of them per stack with CRI and the "better bombard" promotion to speed up the march. Those two never actually attack the city unless it is the last city I want to take on that particular campaign.

At least that is the "ideal doctrine", adn just like in real wars, you never get ideal...

Edit: This is assuming tech parity, and applies equally from cats through cannons. With Arty, airpower and tanks take some of the burden off the artillery corps.

 

[AncientPlayer]

Can't have too many as far as I'm concerned. Rip down the defenses in one turn and attack either in the same turn or in the next until the defenders can't be damaged any more. Then knock off the defenders with whatever I gathered up to go with the siege units. Now that's not the best approach if you're trying to take and hold a whole bunch of cities, but for just one? Works.

 

[jimbob27]

Generally I try and have enough siege units to take all their cities. If I'm attacking a well developed civ with 10 decent cities..... I'll probably have about 50 or more siege units when I declare war.

 

[Landmonitor]

If I can get 5 catapults per city together, that's all well and good, but the earlier you attack, the less advanced they are at the start and will be three turns in.

The longer you wait, the stronger they get. Fifty catapults will take a long time to get together and the more units you bring, the more your campaign will drain the coffers. More isn't alway better (I think that's even a loading screen tip).

 

[Pir Lan Tota]

If I can get 5 catapults per city together, that's all well and good, but the earlier you attack, the less advanced they are at the start and will be three turns in.

The longer you wait, the stronger they get. Fifty catapults will take a long time to get together and the more units you bring, the more your campaign will drain the coffers. More isn't alway better (I think that's even a loading screen tip).

True, but its also good to note that if your bring a large force, then you overwhelm and finish the war early, meaning less WW and are able to convert those "liberated" cities into usefull additions to your empire.

Large stacks hurt you in the short term, but they might pay back in the longer term. Then again, if you mess up and are dragged into a long war, your eco will be shot to sh*t

 

[AmazonQueen]

About 8 per stack in a medieval/renaissance war.
If I have to war I like to take the foe out quickly. Also you will lose some. If you start with plenty you are less likely to have to wait for reinforcements halfway through the war.

 

[Landmonitor]

True, but its also good to note that if your bring a large force, then you overwhelm and finish the war early, meaning less WW and are able to convert those "liberated" cities into usefull additions to your empire.

Large stacks hurt you in the short term, but they might pay back in the longer term. Then again, if you mess up and are dragged into a long war, your eco will be shot to sh*t

We are both right; it just depends on how many cats you have/need, how fast you build, what techs are on the horizon, whether you know what they are researching next, and, most importantly, what your objective in the war is. Its contextual (like everything in Civ)

Not every war I start in this game has the objective of wiping the enemy Civ off the map; if I can take three sweet cities out of six total while he still has archers and not LB, that's better than waiting all the way until Trebs to take the entire empire.

You are certainly right, however, about the necessity to "liberate" cities... I always see my country as a defender of freedom and justice. Sometimes other Civs are the wrong religion and you need to wipe the dust from their eyes.

 

[Supr49er]

To take one city:
4 Trebs (promoted to barrage) to take down city defenses.
4 - 6 Cats (promoted to barrage or CR) to damage units.
Bring up new cats for next city.

 

[gilfan]

To conquer a civ with X cities, I bring

3x catapults/trebuchets
3x axemen/crossbowmen (leaving some behind as garrision troops. If you're going to raze cties, you can take fewer)
1x spearmen/pikemen (if the enemy has a decent number cavalry)

By taking so many siege weapons, you should be able to take the early cities in 1 turn. the first 10-15 bombard, the remaining attack the city to weaken the troops, then your axemen/crossbowmen take the city. By the time you take the last city, you will have lost quite a few siege weapons, but should still be able to capture the city after no more than 2 or three turns.

The point behind this fast conquest strategy is long wars HURT. Not in the number of units lost, but in the crushing happiness penalty.

 

[jimbob27]

We are both right; it just depends on how many cats you have/need, how fast you build, what techs are on the horizon, whether you know what they are researching next, and, most importantly, what your objective in the war is. Its contextual (like everything in Civ)

Not every war I start in this game has the objective of wiping the enemy Civ off the map; if I can take three sweet cities out of six total while he still has archers and not LB, that's better than waiting all the way until Trebs to take the entire empire.

You are certainly right, however, about the necessity to "liberate" cities... I always see my country as a defender of freedom and justice. Sometimes other Civs are the wrong religion and you need to wipe the dust from their eyes.

Yeah... 50 cats is a lot... but thats the kinda requirement for a well developed civ. I might have one or two early wars against weak nearby opponents, but after that I try and pick on the most dangerous rival to get them out of the way. If I'm intending to take 10 cities, 10x5 catapults is a reasonable amount.... as there's nothing more frustrating on having to stop a war just because I'm out of siege units. If I stop the war, my victim is likely to be vassalised by somebody else, which can cause all sorts of problems.

 

[Civfan333]

I think you shouldn't waste time with cats, just go straight to trebs cuz they're so much better......

 

[DilithiumDad]

I don't amass enough units finish off a civ before attacking.
A war has 3 phases:
1) Your initial asault --usually you can take 2-3 cities within the first 4 moves with 3 stacks of doom, with say 2 cats and 2 trebs.
2) The massive AI counterattack. You don't want your troops in the field for this. Keep them in the newly counquered cities or better yet let the AI come onto your territory so that you don't get war weariness for the battles. You need cats with collateral damage upgrade to damage the AI stacks --terbs are useless.
3) Your sweep. If you can destory the counerattacking AI stacks, you can now sweep through enemy territory taking cities until war weariness overwhelms you. For this phase you really only need trebs.

Once you have cannons, you can use them for both purposes. I prefer to give cannons and cats the bombard upgrades and trebs get city raider.

 

[Polobo]

I think you shouldn't waste time with cats, just go straight to trebs cuz they're so much better......

Given the significant gap between construction and engineering would you really want to skip the first available siege unit available if you are going to war? Even then, cost considerations mean you shouldn't expect to lose ANY trebs during an assault so you only need a finite amount of them to bombard away defenses (and spies are helpful here as well, since you'll be dealing with castle if your opponent is near tech-parity) and CR promotions to knock down the defenders.

 

[Landmonitor]

A war has 3 phases:
1) Your initial asault --usually you can take 2-3 cities within the first 4 moves with 3 stacks of doom, with say 2 cats and 2 trebs.
2) The massive AI counterattack. You don't want your troops in the field for this. Keep them in the newly counquered cities or better yet let the AI come onto your territory so that you don't get war weariness for the battles. You need cats with collateral damage upgrade to damage the AI stacks --terbs are useless.
3) Your sweep. If you can destory the counerattacking AI stacks, you can now sweep through enemy territory taking cities until war weariness overwhelms you. For this phase you really only need trebs.

I never noticed this before, but you're right, and that's exactly what happens. You camp out in the newly captured cities and then make mounted sorties against the trebs they bring up. I got Heinz Guderian as my second general in my latest game and I just couldn't bring myself to turn him into an anonymous military advisor specialist so I attached him to some HA... with all three withdrawal upgrades, he and his supporting cavalry have really punished the AI in the massive counterattack phase.

I like Civ.

 

[pfo]

It all really depends on how far you plan to go, bring enough siege so that you can knock out a city's defense, attack, heal, and move on. Keep in mind that nothing ruins a war effort more than not bringing enough siege and having to wait for more to catch up. You can bring fewer siege units if you use spies to knock out culture defense.