How to keep up with AI technology????

[Russn64]

Okay so i too am a returning player and have always played on the first two difficulty levels untill recently when i got bored with winning every single game. so i went to regent, which i heard was a good jump with no cheating on both sides. most things are fine except how quickly ai's develop new techs!! i put my science bar now normally to 70 or 80 percent, but at the beginning while trying to keep up with the ai's rapid expansion i seem to consistently fall behind.Normally 3 to 4 techs behind ai's. Once i get to around the mid industrial-early modern they pull way ahead. i often buy techs off of them or trade random things for them but it's difficult to keep buying techs when i don't have much money cause it's all going to science research!! i know libraries and universities and such but i need more help. even when i get to the 4 turn minimum they still seem to be way ahead and advancing quicker. Do ai's have a lower minimum?

You there who is chuckling to his/herself, please please help me out by responding!

thanks much!

 

[vmxa]

If you are behind in the AA and have barbs on, then it is not a big deal. They will pop huts and trade around and get through the AA techs fast enough. Once you get past the free Middle Ages stuff, you should be coming into your own, sooner is not hard to do either.

It is fine to trade, but I would not like to feed them gold as that will tend to make you a longer term buyer You are in effect supporting their research. A one time buy is one thing.

The thing is you are probably not as big as you should be and or not improving your empire enough. This often has to do with a lack of workers. I wrote an article for Regent players in my sig. It is for C3C, but it applies to all versions for the most part. It just does not factor in things like RCP (Rank City Placement) that is in vanilla.

Post a save and get some feedback. Ideally a very early one and one where you have started to run into issue.

 

[Aabraxan]

vmxa is right: the best way to get good advice around here is to post a save.

With that said, there are a few common culprits that I see in the help request threads. When someone says that they are having trouble keeping up, some of the common problems are:

• Too few workers
• Too few roads
• Ineffective trading
• Too many unnecessary structures
• To many unnecessary defensive units

Once you start selling techs for get gpt, you start slowing down AI research. Then you get more techs to sell. It's a cycle that lets you pull further and further ahead. Without seeing the save, it's hard to offer anything concrete, but I'll try. It sounds like you're too busy funding AI research. I don't know what your victory condition is, but assuming that it's not AW, or a zero science game, here's what I'll suggest. Play on a continents or archipelago map to slow down AI contacts. Be sure to build or buy plenty of workers. Research left to right, rather than top to bottom. Once you get Writing, start trying to gather enough gold to build embassies. Once embassies are built, start looking for opportunities to sell techs for gpt. At Regent, the AI may not have much gpt to pay with, and the first techs might only get you +1-2 gpt (plus some other stuff), but you'll start to see that AI begin to fall behind. Then keep selling them techs for gpt. I do this all the time, and it's a good way to keep up. Frankly, I simply consider it economic warfare.

 

[Russn64]

i read that multiplier guide. but it got me a little confused on whether to build banks and things. so basically what your saying is break up ai contact, sell techs to them even if it's for cheap(in the beginning)(which will reverse our roles and they would fund me), and all those bullets as well. how do you buy workers from others? it doesn't come up too often for me. and the version i play is straight up normal, vanilla i believe it's called? can you still get your hands on old copies of civ3 gold and stuff? which version of civ3 is the best?

thanks

 

[Russn64]

what do you mean by having barbarians on makes it okay in the AA? yeah i read your whole thing a few days back. the france thing right? it was helpful. and as far as saves go, i play on an old windows 98 laptop wich i have no clue how to hook up to internet and post screenshots or whatever, sorry lol. i'm on the family imac so no way to really transfer i think?

 

[vmxa]

i read that multiplier guide. but it got me a little confused on whether to build banks and things. so basically what your saying is break up ai contact, sell techs to them even if it's for cheap(in the beginning)(which will reverse our roles and they would fund me), and all those bullets as well. how do you buy workers from others? it doesn't come up too often for me. and the version i play is straight up normal, vanilla i believe it's called? can you still get your hands on old copies of civ3 gold and stuff? which version of civ3 is the best?

thanks

I think what is meant is evaluate the structure to see if it makes sense for what you are going now. Are you running 0 taxes, no sense in making banks. Ok, you are running with x%, but does this town net any more than 1 gold?

If not, no sense to make a bank here. Maybne later the town will be netting some gold and a bank would make sense. Got smith's? Then at least the maint is free, but you still have to spend the shields. Maybe they are better used for something else right now and so on.

Yes, a possible action is to use lots of water to make contacts slower for the AI, though that is not as useful as it is for deity and sid.

The lower the level the harder it is to get the AI to come up with gold, but you can always take it when you get the chance.

Workers are only for sale, when they are in the capitol. That is not uncommon in the first turns as the worker goes back and forth. Later you see it, when they are under attack.

You can still find all version for sale. The best version imo is Conquest for Civ3. You have to have vanilla to install it though. Complete has all versions.

 

[vmxa]

what do you mean by having barbarians on makes it okay in the AA? yeah i read your whole thing a few days back. the france thing right? it was helpful. and as far as saves go, i play on an old windows 98 laptop wich i have no clue how to hook up to internet and post screenshots or whatever, sorry lol. i'm on the family imac so no way to really transfer i think?

I think the mac saves can be loaded, check in the mac forum. I know we had mac users in our SG and we all passed the save back and forth. You can just use a thumb drive to copy form the Win98 and upload form any machine.

Same for screen shots, created them and copy to a thumb drive.

What I meant by the barbs is that the AI will get techs from huts and trade them with each other at a discount. So they can get ahead or even in techs during the AA.

After they jump to the next age, no more techs from huts. If they are scientific they get their free tech for the next age. This again lets them stay with you or stay ahead.

After that they should not be able to stay with you, if you have decent land and a good expansion. If they do, then something needs to be addressed. Usually the things mentioned already.

 

[Aabraxan]

On buildings, vmxa's hit it: you've got to look at what you're doing, what you want to do, and what makes sense. Your cities don't need anything. The questions is: What does the empire need for your cities to have?

Every building has a shield cost and a maintenance cost. If you want to run a high science slider, it doesn't make sense to build a lot of banks, because they won't generate any extra commerce. A library in a 90% corrupt town won't generate any extra beakers (because all the commerce is going to corruption), but you'll still have to pay the maintenance.

You have to check on trade, either through F4 or CivAssist or MapStat, to watch for opportunities to buy workers. If they're in an AI capital, they'll show up as an item that you can buy. The AI is notoriously bad about not building enough workers, and if you consistently buy their workers, that'll help slow them down, and speed you up.

 

[vmxa]

I am not sure, but iirc Conquest does not work on a mac. Maybe it was fixed, but I do recall for a long time only Civ3 and maybe PTW worked for macs.

I seem to recall that the price of workers changed as it is not a flat 120 in C3C, but I think it was cheaper in C3. That may have been patched, not sure.

 

[Aabraxan]

It's not 120 in C3C. I usually pay ~110, but it's not always the same price.

 

[vmxa]

I checked and there is some fix for C3C 1.22 for Mac users now. Aabraxan I will see if I can test it, I am quite sure it is 120 and pretty sure it used to be less in older version. I vaguely recall them changing it to slow down the AI from losing them out of the gate.

 

[Optional]

I can't speak for Vanilla, but the price of workers in Conquests varies a bit. I believe it is at least influenced by:
* difficulty level
* aggression level of the civ you buy from
* whether it's a slave or a native worker you're buying
* possibly time in game???

At Demigod I normally pay 105 - 120 gold, but in some ill-fated succession game on Deity I noticed it was a bit more.
I usually get them for 105 from India and France, but civs like Mongols and Germany charge me 120. I assume that's the aggression level of the civ that makes the difference. Although the cheapest worker I ever bought was oddly enough also from Germany and cost me a flat 100. That was much later in the game though, so that was maybe a factor.
My dearest one came from the Mayans, I believe it was 130. When it arrived it turned out to have a barbarian background, so I assume that's why it was costlier - the worker was already free of maintainance for the Mayans.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

For a long time now I have seen the recommendation to trade for gpt to slow the AI research down. Sometimes it worked but not nearly enough to make a difference. Then in my last game I finally found a method that worked. I used to offer a tech or resource and see what they offer, now when I have a tech or resource I ask want they want for 25 or 50 gpt, big difference. Even when I could get a tech I will ask what they want for gpt? Nothing sweeter than having multiple countries feeding you 50 to 100 gpt each!

 

[vmxa]

Looks like the price is not always the same. I have found 110 and 120 in test so far.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Prices in Vanilla for workers vary between 20ish and 30ish gp. Difficulty has a lot to do with it.

 

[Daeron]

I played a 5CC Spaceship race on Emperor with the agressivity setting on least aggressive. I could buy workers for 80 gold a piece.