How to specialize this city?

[OTAKUjbski]

You say that 17P at 6 pop is "not bad," but not optimal. When you consider specialization, say, production, what do you see as good at that pop level?

It's funny I said that at all, because in my city specialization article, I say "15 - 20", so this city is actually within range of what I would think makes a good production city.

When I'm sussing out the landscape and trying to make a decision like this, what production number should I be shooting for?

I think I got ahead of myself, because the base production number isn't the only thing that matters.

In addition to all the factors I mentioned, I also look at future potential.

That city's 17P is after working ALL the available production tiles (I don't count Desert Hills, because they suck for just about everything).

Even with the 3 Desert hills, the city would have 26P @ pop 12, which isn't the best /tile ratio (only just better than a Plains Hill mine).

Any further production has to be made up by Watermills and Workshops -- both of which don't really come into their own until after the Industrial Era and require CS and/or SP to reach full potential.

I prefer to see production cities with Food resource tiles and lots of hills.

You then go on to note that it won't make a great Oxford city (too few towns, although 13 sounds like a lot to me). How many towns do I need for a good Oxford city?

20, lol.

It's ultimately dependent upon how the map was built, but I try to keep my eye out for a city that will eventually run 15 or more Towns. Those cities are typically in the Jungle and find themselves with cottaged hills by the end of the game.

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All things considered, I think the city is best suited as a Commerce City (possibly turned Production City later) or GP Farm -- the latter because of the production the city can "turn on" to grab good Wonders.

The one thing I dislike most about it as a Specialist City is that the specialists are supported 1:1 (one Floodplains citizen-worker supports 1 specialist) instead of 1:2 (such as one Grass Pig supporting 2 specialists).

-- more of my 2

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I'd turn this into a production city, unless there were a clearly better candidate elsewhere nearby.

In the early game, cows + farm + 4 mined hills immediately take production pressure off of your capital. I'm not going to argue with anyone who asks for more than 17/6, so long as they don't expect to get it regularly.

Late game, with the levee, and state propertied watermills carrying the load, you've got a fine production center. Before BTS production buffed the late game, 60 base /turn in State Property was a pretty good count, and this city would make it.

Mid game - yeah, OK, the desert hills suck. But you aren't going to be working the desert hills at size 12, you are going to be working the flood plains! By the time you need the extra kick in production, you should have -1 +2 shops available, which would put you at 29 @ pop 12.

No, it's not a GreatenVundarHaus, but it will do nicely as a military pump (suggesting that in the early years, you are biasing it that direction rather than towards settlers workers wonders). Furthermore, since you know it has a respectable future, you don't need to hold back on installing the Heroic Epic.

Alternatively (or in those cases where the happy cap pops before the workshops hit their first power up), you farm the remaining floods and whip until morale improves.

 

[Priah]

I guess ill pitch in with "GP farm". Too many floodplains to waste it on production, and it also means you can leave the forests for the health.

I gotta agree.... Im a little confused why no one has brought up gp farm. This city basically fits my definition of the perfect gp farm. Tons of food to a ridiculous extent really, some relatively bad production tiles (1 plains hill, 4 desert hills? relatively useless terrain in most cases, but perfect terrain for a gp farm that needs some easy access to some hammers while it builds a wonder).

Tho the fact that you are building cottages in a production focus city kinda tells me you probably have no idea what a gp farm is

 

[Priah]

Ugh, I actually just read the forum posts. This city only has desert hills and plains hills, it was not meant to be a production city in any way. Either a gp farm or an econ / globe theatre city. I typically play a quasi hybrid economy, so theres no question that Id be running specialists here.

Ugh, production city tho. I cant believe how many people were supporting that idea.

 

[DigitalBoy]

It has two grassland hills also. Between the farmed floodplains and the cow, it has the surplus food to mine all the hills and workshop practically all of the non-irrigatable flatland tiles. It's a prime candidate for a production city.

 

[Andvare]

I gotta agree.... Im a little confused why no one has brought up gp farm. This city basically fits my definition of the perfect gp farm. Tons of food to a ridiculous extent really, some relatively bad production tiles (1 plains hill, 4 desert hills? relatively useless terrain in most cases, but perfect terrain for a gp farm that needs some easy access to some hammers while it builds a wonder).

Tho the fact that you are building cottages in a production focus city kinda tells me you probably have no idea what a gp farm is

Because it's actually a poor GP farm. A good farm have several food resources, as to requiring less working population for more specialist. This might *become* a decent GP farm, but that would take awhile, when the happy cap is high enough. Besides, all that floodplain puts a dampener on the GP aspirations.
If it should be a wonder-based GP farm, then production is what is needed, hence a production city.

 

[Andvare]

Woohoo! Someone agrees with me!

 

[Airefuego]

It's ultimately dependent upon how the map was built, but I try to keep my eye out for a city that will eventually run 15 or more Towns. Those cities are typically in the Jungle and find themselves with cottaged hills by the end of the game.

I disagree respectfully and the reason is the word "eventually".

Because Oxford is available mid-game, you want it in a city that already has multiple towns so you get real benefit from early on. If cottages aren't being worked until after iron working (likely in a jungle city) they may not be mature enough.

Assuming I am trying to win fast, I'd rather put Oxford in a city with 13 towns than 20 cottages.

 

[Diamondeye]

Even with the 3 Desert hills, the city would have 26P @ pop 12, which isn't the best /tile ratio (only just better than a Plains Hill mine).

Huh? 26P @ pop 12 is a / ratio of 13/12, where as a plains hill mine (4P, -2F) has a ratio of 4/2, or 24/12. That's almost double... please tell me how you got these numbers or if I am doing anything wrong 'ere...

I disagree respectfully and the reason is the word "eventually".

Because Oxford is available mid-game, you want it in a city that already has multiple towns so you get real benefit from early on. If cottages aren't being worked until after iron working (likely in a jungle city) they may not be mature enough.

Assuming I am trying to win fast, I'd rather put Oxford in a city with 13 towns than 20 cottages.

I usually put it in either a city that has lots of riverside cottages (in all sizes), or the SuperScienceCity.

 

[Priah]

Because it's actually a poor GP farm. A good farm have several food resources, as to requiring less working population for more specialist. This might *become* a decent GP farm, but that would take awhile, when the happy cap is high enough. Besides, all that floodplain puts a dampener on the GP aspirations.
If it should be a wonder-based GP farm, then production is what is needed, hence a production city.

Ok I suppose theres a decent argument in that, but getting multiple 6~ food tiles within range of a one city is kinda a hard thing to go for.

But honestly, if you build this city and are ever working desert hills instead of flood plains.... I will just point you in the direction of slavery.

Anything you do with this city is fine, as long as your strategy involves working all the flood plain tiles before working any other terrain (cow excluded).

Desert hills are just plain bad and should never be worked, anyone who says otherwise has no idea how to use slavery. (except in the case of building a wonder early)

 

[DigitalBoy]

Desert hills are just plain bad and should never be worked, anyone who says otherwise has no idea how to use slavery. (except in the case of building a wonder early)

Desert tiles are less than ideal, but mines are such a great improvement that it compensates somewhat. I like to think of mined desert hills as the equivalent of plains workshops, and I know how much you like workshops:

I sort of view workshops as the replacement for slavery in the middle ages when your cities are around size 14 - 16. Your cities still need some sort of production, but slavery costs more and more the bigger your cities become. I havn't done the specific math on this, but what I generally do is bring my econ cities up to their health caps, then work a few workshop tiles for production and bring the +food to zero. Then if I increase my health cap, Ill change / work different tiles and grow it a higher size.

Im not really sure about the math on this, but I believe that this is more effective than slavery in the middle ages.