How to you manage a large invasion force across the ocean?

[dannythefool]

There are some problems. Pathfinding is broken if water is involved. Apparently the AI is hurt by this even more. The AI also doesn't understand naval combat - or rather, does not prepare for the possibility if it doesn't think it's going to need it for its own conquests - and will not really do much to get in your way. Moving many units is more work and it's harder to embark a large army if you only have very little coast line.

But I have successfully invaded enemy nations over the ocean. First, you don't need as many units as in cIV to successfully capture a city. Second, if you *do* have enough coast line, getting your army embarked is much faster than moving them all to a rally point and putting them on a transport there, which can then be sunk with *all* units on it. Once you are at this point, depending on circumstances, it *can* be easier and less hassle than invading over land since your embarked units can move in a straight line and at three tiles per turn. When disembarking, terrain is still important. Don't disembark out into the open at the very least, and if possible disembark outside your enemy's borders or at least not right next to his cities.

I think this is much easier in ciV than in cIV, *but* it suffers from the same problems as land combat, broken pathfinding, and so on, and more often than not, the AI isn't actually trying to counter it.

 

[swatmp5]

swatmp5, that looks awesome, i bet you were well chuffed! haha

Yeah, and it was worth it in the end: a successful invasion takes a lot of preparation. Below is what happened after.

Spoiler :

 

[Frasco]

That's basically it!!!

 

[caracarnn]

Use Caravels upgraded to destroyers as scout. The +5 vision is marvelous

 

[spoooq]

Use Caravels upgraded to destroyers as scout. The +5 vision is marvelous

There are methods to get extra vision as well... VERY useful!

 

[mattavich]

Yeah, and it was worth it in the end: a successful invasion takes a lot of preparation. Below is what happened after.

Spoiler :

Looks awesome. One thing i love about Civ5 is it makes you feel like you're actually invading. You know like that map they use to illustrate forces in world war 2 on tv documentary programs?

I think my strategy didn't include nukes but I suppose you could just drop a few nukes on the defending forces.

1 Nuke can wipe a countries whole forces, that's what I did to napoleon. He had much larger forces than me so I rushed the manhattan project, built 2 atomic bombs, then went to war.

Suffice to say his mass forces didn't even see it coming

Watching the bomber pass over and drop the atomic bomb, i nearly wet my pants.

 

[SlothMD]

Only two russian invasion units got off the boat and they were quickly decimated.

They only suffered one point of damage apiece? That sucks.

 

[spoooq]

They only suffered one point of damage apiece? That sucks.

 

[spoooq]

Looks awesome. One thing i love about Civ5 is it makes you feel like you're actually invading. You know like that map they use to illustrate forces in world war 2 on tv documentary programs?

That was a great documentary. So informative, it must have been just like that.

 

[zarakand]

If naval units did more damage to other naval units, it wouldn't be such a pain in the ass. As it is, it sometimes takes my destroyers/battleships multiple turns to destroy some horribly outdated ship like a barbarian trireme. Meaning that trireme gets a free kill on any embarked unit. Gets even worse when the tech gap isn't so ridiculously large. You just cannot effectively destroy an enemy naval force before they cheesily move onto your transports, taking them down instantly. I'm playing Elizabeth on a tiny islands map right now and really regretting not picking Askia. Especially when my level 16 units get killed off in some lame way like that and I reload the game (which is a 7+ minute ordeal with plenty of crashes in my case)

I can't say I mind the vulnerabilities involved in the 1UPT while landing units on the shore, though. If you don't want to deal with that, land them farther away. It should be kinda risky to come out of nowhere in the sea and unload everything you've got at the enemy doorstep. Certainly went poorly for more than a few guys at D-day.

I agree with you that it is a pain to destroy certain ship types. I had a game where I had several destroyers vs several frigates and caravels. It took me several turns to mop them up.

Modern (metal) ships should get a bonus vs wooden ships. It should be a fairly strong bonus! Maybe like the pikeman/spearman bonus towards mounted units.

 

[generalwar]

Now you see why it's hard to capture Britain . I think that you should always bring troops during peace and if you had war earlier, use 10 turns of peace and put troops on 2 places and that should be it (almost ).

 

[Craftsman]

Every criticism of the game mechanics is met with similar response here a.k.a. get over it.

Like there is any other option!

Well, I just feel I have the right to complain, as now I am feeling my pockets a little lighter.

Besides that, I would be complaining about this Civ 5 matter (and many others) even if this was the first and only civ game ever released in human history (the awe would be greater if this was the case, though).

The game mechanics for unit movements, in this game, is a bag of pain. A general doesn't whisper to every single troop "Hey, let's attack now." or "Move right there." He just amasses troops at a certain location, points out at a target and shouts "Attaaaack!".

you have to defend your embarked units better. keep some warships in close for defense, but put some smaller faster ships in a wider formation so nothing can sneak up on your out of the fog of war without seeing it at least a turn before it reaches your vulnerable units. a strong navy is VITAL to any trans-oceanic invasion. if you can't field the ships to protect your land units, stay home until you can.

Thanks for the tips!

Yep. I fully agree with you that my embarked troops were poorly protected (I knew that), at least in terms of quantity and quality (tactically, I've surrounded them with my combat ships - the most obvious thing to do).

I could have built carriers, airplanes and even battleships to go and protect them. But as the construction of units (and buildings) takes forever to complete (even on my "quick" speed game), I went to assault the remaining enemy capital with the most powerful units I had at hand. I was not in the mood of "conquering the seas" with a gazillion warships - this would take forever. I just wanted to finish the game as quickly as possible, so it wouldn't hurt my score).

Aside my impacience (it was already 1956 AD when I embarked my troops) in Civ 5, what really annoys me is that we have defenseless embarked units everywhere! And the story gets uglier, as we have to take one by one by hand and say "Ok, now you go there." while they're eaten alive by half-dead enemy ships.

It's just inefficient.

P.S.: About the tactics and other stuff: I purchased Civ 5 exactly for the new experience (the same one that isn't being 100% enjoyable - for most of us civ players, I dare to say). IMO, I am very open minded when learning new concepts, and I am really trying hard to do the things in the new way (like I did from Civ2 to Civ3 and from Civ3 to Civ4). But this time consuming unit micromanagement (and its downfalls), IMO, cripples the strategic beauty of the game.

P.P.S: Try and land all your embarked units (if you can) side by side, along a continental coast owned by a major power, without nuking the enemy cities first, to see what will happen to them in the few next turns.

 

[spoooq]

I know I am picking out things you said but

1) generals generally don't just charge their troops ahead
2) what do you expect to happen with a wild broadside invasion?
3) emotions like impatience don't help in war

Maybe the whole war thing isnt your style? Not being mean, war-games are an aquired taste.

 

[heartCORE]

I was not in the mood of "conquering the seas" with a gazillion warships - this would take forever. I just wanted to finish the game as quickly as possible, so it wouldn't hurt my score).

THAT'S your problem =/

 

[SlothMD]

Aside my impacience (it was already 1956 AD when I embarked my troops) in Civ 5, what really annoys me is that we have defenseless embarked units everywhere! And the story gets uglier, as we have to take one by one by hand and say "Ok, now you go there." while they're eaten alive by half-dead enemy ships.

It's just inefficient.

Maybe you should sweep the sea lanes before sending your transports in?

 

[Booshaka]

I've pulled off some landings, and yes it is difficult but it can be done, if you cant produce enough naval support to protect your flotilla then you should try something else. Just because you want to do something and can't pull it off easy doesn't mean it's broke. I once bribed a city state so I could land some units in their turf and used those units to rush out to intercept enemies coming for the beach when I landed the feet of my army.

 

[Razal19]

Although I've pulled off a couple of naval landings I do find that naval combat takes wayyyyy too long. I had 4 frigates on the south side of my main landing force and in comes an enemy frigate... I see him before he's in range of my troops so I engage, with all four frigates....

Each attack does 2-3 damage (granted they were only level 2-3)... but still... I didn't have enough to finish him off in one round. He just meanders on in and takes out a Riflemen unit...

This is the only thing that bugs me about seas is that naval combat seems to take forever to be resolved.

 

[Frasco]

I've done a pair of invasions myself. The only problem is I had a big tech lead and little opposition. think the main problem with moving a convoy is that automated moves are made after the turn. If there was an option to force automated moves I could automate my transports and then deploy my warships around them easily.

I do like this kind of naval warfare much more than previous versions. In [C3C] I loved to bombard enemy ships with my MoW and then take them out. cIV sucked at this.

 

[Drawmeus]

I feel like this is one of those issues that is more a problem of the user... I mean there are tons of legit issues with the game, but frankly taking losses when you attempt an ocean crossing with a lightly defended navy is not one of them. If you try a large-scale naval invasion without absolute dominance over that ocean, you SHOULD take extreme losses in the crossing.

 

[filorux]

I've had some naval invasion success using city-states. I just had to find a coastal (not necessarily maritime, mind you) one on the continent I was planning to invade. You can just trespass on them, but might as well befriend them for a place to heal up. Ally, puppet, or annex are options too, depending on how secure you think that territory is in light of your real target...and all the other considerations of city-state alliance/conquest. Still, I needed escorts to get me there, but the landings worked out better.