Precisely why I think Russia should have alternate leaders. Last Civ installment at least 6 Civs had different choices of leaders. So let's let Russia have the same. Ivan the Terrible is certainly a character tailor-made for this franchise. Someone to make the World tremble. What also made the World shake a bit. The Soviet Red Army. Which should bring my alternate choice for leader. Nikita Khrushchev. But I could see using Mikhail Gorbachev(Gorby). Sure a bit recent. But Gorby was charismatic but also unyielding in wanting to change things in Russia. Yet still keep her strong. But I could enjoy having Ivan as leader. But include units from the Soviet Military for unique units. Such as. T-80 Battle Tank, Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter, MIG-23 Jet Fighter, TK-208 Typhoon Typhoon Class Submarine. Imagine Ivan The Terrible with this military hardware at his disposal. Let the World tremble.
How would you design Russia?
- Thread starter Xandinho
- Start date
Precisely why I think Russia should have alternate leaders. Last Civ installment at least 6 Civs had different choices of leaders. So let's let Russia have the same. Ivan the Terrible is certainly a character tailor-made for this franchise. Someone to make the World tremble. What also made the World shake a bit. The Soviet Red Army. Which should bring my alternate choice for leader. Nikita Khrushchev. But I could see using Mikhail Gorbachev(Gorby). Sure a bit recent. But Gorby was charismatic but also unyielding in wanting to change things in Russia. Yet still keep her strong. But I could enjoy having Ivan as leader. But include units from the Soviet Military for unique units. Such as. T-80 Battle Tank, Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter, MIG-23 Jet Fighter, TK-208 Typhoon Typhoon Class Submarine. Imagine Ivan The Terrible with this military hardware at his disposal. Let the World tremble.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
"Soviet Red Army" is just not accurate, mixing two different designations from two different time periods:
From 1918 to 1946 it was the Red Army of Workers and Peasants (RKKA), or Raboche-Krestyanskaya Krasnaya Armiya , frequently shortened to "Red Army".
From 1946 to 1991 it was the Soviet Army (SA), or Sovetskaya Armiya
So, take your pick: as the RKKA or Red Army the Unique Units might be:
T-34 tank
IL-2 Shturmovik
"Katyusha" rocket artillery
(I could also make a case for the IS-2 heavy tank, the Morskii Pekhotii "Black Death" Naval Infantry, or the Breakthrough Artillery Division, but that's because I've written books on this stuff, not because anybody else would know what I'm talking about)
As the Soviet Army Unique Units could be:
T-64 Main Battle Tank (Modern Armor) - one of the first Main Battle Tanks fielded by anyone
Mi-24 Attack Helicopter
MiG-21 Fighter - the most produced fighter aircraft of the Cold War
He's still alive. Living people (and recently living people) have a right to their own image, and therefore Firaxis would have to get permission and pay royalties. Not going to happen. (On a related note, guess why Giselle is not an official Disney Princess.
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I do agree that Russia should be a prime candidate for multiple leaders. At least one should be from Tsarist Russia. I'd like to see Catherine the Great again.
I think in order of who I'd like:
Catherine the Great (I see her playstyle similar to Peter again)
Ivan the Terrible (Expansionist and can come with Streltsy UU)
Lenin (The only Soviet era leader I'd choose as the others are too recent/controversial)
Peter can take a break next game, and Stalin can take an even longer break.
For representing Soviet Power though I like the idea of having a T-34 Tank UU instead of the Cossack though. I also find Kievan Rus, or Kiev as a Russian city in general, a little weird so that's why I wouldn't want Olga.
Implying Lenin isn't himself extremely controversial.
Less controversial than the others, perhaps...Better idea: replace Catherine the Great with Tsarina Yelizaveta Petrovna, Empress of All the Russias, just for an interesting new face; replace Ivan IV with Ivan III or Alexandr Nevsky to represent Rus'.
Rus' is the heritage of both Russia and Ukraine, but Ukraine is very unlikely to ever be a playable civ--so might as well give it to Russia, along with Novgorod, Vladimir, and Muscovy. Or I'm on board with making Rus' it's own civ, as Lord Lakely suggested, in which case I'd propose just Yelizaveta for Russia and give multiple leaders to Rus' (Ivan III and Alexandr Nevsky).
The T-34(as a unique 1st Battle Tank) being the most recognized could be ideal. But I like the T-64 or T-80 for Modern Armor. I also like the menacing Mi-24 Helicopter. That would be perfect for the persona of someone like Ivan The Terrible. But also the Soviets produced some very impressive Submarines. Typhoon Class(Red October unless copywrite red tape is applied) would be preferred.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
The old joke in the Soviet Navy was that because so many of their nuclear submarines were assigned to the Northern Fleet you could always identify a sailor from the Northern Fleet because they glowed in the dark: those impressive submarines had a ghastly record of service accidents, of which the Kursk disaster was only the one they couldn't cover up. A UU that occasionally sinks of its own accord or poisons its own crew is certainly "Unique" but not necessarily desirable.
Well yes to both: less controversial and less recent than the others.Implying Lenin isn't himself extremely controversial.
Ideology preferences aside any recent leader is going to be controversial.
I considered Nevsky, for Novgorod, but I'd also rather not a religious Russia again.
True it just falls into my category of I'd rather not it be it's own civ, but also not make it part of Russia civilization either for reasons. Kiev however would make a good city-state.
Considering the game is inspired by history I find it a little odd when UUs are basically endgame, especially ones that would replace units that don't upgrade anymore. The only unit currently that we have is the Mountie but they get a pass because they can make National Parks.
+1 point for no modern leaders.
Religion and Russia just go together.
Russia has been Enlightenment Russia for every single iteration of Civ except the first two (and, uh, let's not talk about that
); I'd like to see something different, something before Russia began Westernizing.
Are one or three 19th Century leaders acceptable here? Russia does have options that would suit them here - if not my earlier proposed Alexander I, then at least Alexander II+1 point for no modern leaders.
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Personally I'd prefer to draw the line at the 18th century where possible, but I'm sure we'll have a few 19th century leaders. I don't mind them as much as 20th century leaders. Though speaking specifically of Russia, I feel like 19th century Russia isn't all that different from 18th century Russia and still doesn't feel like a meaningful change.
Is Alexander II's ability that he loses the game every time he reforms his government?Russia does have options that would suit them here - if not my earlier proposed Alexander I, then at least Alexander II
Only once gunpowder is researchedIs Alexander II's ability that he loses the game every time he reforms his government?
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Sure but there are also many other concepts for them to explore to such as expansion, science, culture and military. Not to mention agrarian.Religion and Russia just go together.
I thought they went a little too overboard with faith bonuses for Russia, so that's why I'd like to see something different.
Well that's why I put Ivan the Terrible as my second choice.Russia has been Enlightenment Russia for every single iteration of Civ except the first two (and, uh, let's not talk about that
Science? Russia was always a century or more behind the rest of Europe.Sure but there are also many other concepts for them to explore to such as expansion, science, culture and military. Not to mention agrarian.
I see Russia as a religion/culture/trade/expansion civ, whether it's Rus' or Romanov.He's still a Romanov (by marriage).Well that's why I put Ivan the Terrible as my second choice.
What about Ivan III, Grand Prince of Moscow and Grand Prince of All Rus'?
Well if you wanted to go the Soviet route, then yes I think they could do science too.Science? Russia was always a century or more behind the rest of Europe.
He might not have the big personality of Ivan IV, but he is another option.He's still a Romanov (by marriage).
The Soviet Union was also about 100+ years behind the rest of Europe except in missile technology.Well if you wanted to go the Soviet route, then yes I think they could do science too.
I guess he should have murdered his son; then everyone would like him better.
Ok, so the design is obvious
- medieval ruler of Muscovy or Novgorod
- not too territorially expansive
- high quality, disciplined army
- trade bonuses
- big city development bonuses
- unit that is neither cossack nor streltsy
- sucks just as much in tundra as all homo sapiens everywhere, because Russians are not biologically different species and we avoid racial stereotypes
I think we can all agree on those points
- medieval ruler of Muscovy or Novgorod
- not too territorially expansive
- high quality, disciplined army
- trade bonuses
- big city development bonuses
- unit that is neither cossack nor streltsy
- sucks just as much in tundra as all homo sapiens everywhere, because Russians are not biologically different species and we avoid racial stereotypes
I think we can all agree on those points
I did say they were advanced in rocket science, but in virtually every other field they were centuries behind the West.
I agree on all of this except I do like the srelets. It's been used in Age of Empires a couple times, but I don't think we've ever had it in Civ that I recall--Russia always gets Cossacks in Civ.
Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Not all of them.
Muscovy and Russia were as territorially expansive as they could get away with: they waged aggressive, expansionist wars against each other until Muscovy conquered all the other Russian city states, then against the Siberian tribes until they reached the Pacific, then against the Ming Chinese until they got their butts whipped along the Amur, and against virtually every other neighbor they had at one time or the other.
Expansionist is, in fact, one of the Civ Traits of any Russian Civilization.
Their army was always Big. It was not always high quality or disciplined. The characteristics attributed to the Russian military by every observer from Renaissance Arab travelers to Europeans from the 1600s to the twentieth century were Stubbornness and Size. There were always a lot of them and they were as tenacious as Mold in Miami. Their other characteristic that I have noted is that they always seem to have had some fraction of very Elite units of some kind in addition to a Mass of ordinary troops: Guard Cuirassiers and Grenadiers in Napoleonic times, "Death Battalions" in WWI, Spetsnaz in the post-WWII eras, etc. That speaks to Unique Units narrowly defined and very cheap ordinary Units, but not a universal "high quality" characteristic.
Trade Bonus is definitely correct: Russia developed along the great rivers of central Asia/eastern Europe precisely because they were the highways of trade. To a great extent, medieval and post-medieval Russia took over the Middleman aspect of the earlier pastoral cultures of Central Asia, acting as a conduit for Asia-European trade until better sea transport technology made the overland routes less important.
There was, as I remember, a modded Kiev/Rus Civ in an early iteration of the game that had a bonus to trade routes traced along rivers, and that would be a solid Unique for any Russian Civ.
Big City Development needs to be more precise: the Soviet government developed, from nothing, very concentrated Industrial Cities like Stalino, Magnitogorsk, Chelyabinsk, etc. but they were part of a very government-directed development of Industry. Earlier, Saint Petersburg was developed from a swamp-surrounded village into an Imperial Capital, but it took a huge application of resources to do it and besides capital/palace structures. a great deal of the epitome Industrial and Cultural structures remained elsewhere: the Bolshoi Ballet and St Basil's Cathedral remain the iconic cultural structures that aren't palaces and both are in Moscow, and Russian heavy industry remained concentrated within a 150 kilometer radius around Moscow.
I would rather in game terms have it that Russia can perhaps change its Capital for free once or X times in the game or has a Bonus to construction of Industrial/Commercial/Harbor Districts to represent their ability to concentrate Industry in new locations as the Soviets did (Of course, since this trait has also been exhibited by the PRC, it perhaps could be associated with a Communist Government rather than a Civ).
As @Zaarin said, except for Modded versions, Civ hasn't had a Russia with Streltsi for a Unique Unit, and it fits neatly with the basic Russian military characteristic: hey weren't that much better individually than anybody else's Pike & Shot units, but there were a lot of them (60 - 100,000 men in standing regiments) and they formed the solid base of the Russian armies for most of the Early Modern Era.
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