Huxley Hobbes
Anarcho-capitalist
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2005
- Messages
- 162
First of all, I'm a pretty hardcore player, but I'm not a particularly brilliant one! I've been playing Civ for a long time but I tend not to challenge myself greatly in games. Also, I'm far from an expert on many matters of Civ 4, as I've not had the chance to play it as much as I would like.
Nevertheless, I've been buzzing with ideas and I have compiled a list of possibilities that would, I think, make the Civ 4 experience much larger and more intricate. I admit now and fully that this is not for everyone; it would make some significant changes and additions, most notably a series of future eras. Many people feel that Civ should be about history up to this point, and even things like SDI and Civ 3's Cure for Cancer are pushing it. Fair enough, I say! Just so long as everyone is having fun, and I think I would have more fun if my ideas were worked in somehow.
Oh, and I have little coding knowhow, so many of my ideas might be entirely unworkable! =D Because of this, I'm going to say that anyone may take any aspect they like the look of here and do whatever the like with it. If y'all want to form a team to implement a fair chunk of my ideas, that's great too, but just take what you like, if anything. All I ask is that you give credit where it is due.
Well, I've tabulated my ideas in my notepad, so I suppose I'll just go through that in order...
Eliminate the 'Time' victory condition.
Civ does not have to be uber-realistic, but the fact of the matter is that in 45 year's time, when we're right in the middle of a new Cold War between the US and China, and when there's some series wars going on in the Middle East, we're not going to suddenly stop and say 'Oh, Canada won!' I always turn the time condition of when I can, or extend it as much as possible, because I'd rather play a game which results in a stalemate than have it end because of that.
Rethinking of the year/turn measurement system.
My answer is to have the discovery of the Calendar as Year 0, and for it to advance from there in a similar manner to the way it does now. Perhaps not having 40 year leaps to begin with, however. Of course, it could be possible to simply have each turn equal 1 year after the discovery of calendar, because we wouldn't be working on the prior model of 2050 being the end date, if my above suggestion is implemented.
Replace the Space Race victory with something else.
Largely this is a necessity because the expanded tech tree would last long past the Space Race. An idea I had last night which appeals to me greatly is for a civ to be able to construct an alternate dimension into which they can go, being the only civ there, and 'winning' because they made not only a massive technological achievement but because they are now essentially gods. An easier one would be a Doomsday Device, which would instantly bring the world under the builder's control.
'High' balancing, SMAC-style.
Civ 4 is leagues ahead of 3 in this matter, but I really loved the way SMAC allowed you to become truly powerful. With the inclusion of future techs, this would be possible here as well, as tiles provide large benefits when improved properly, for example, and buildsings continue to confer XP/health/research bonuses, and so forth.
More Civics/New category.
The new category would be something like 'Miscellaneous', and if possible would allow some civics to be toggled on and off rather than only one being allowed at a time. It's perfectly possible, for example, for a Caste System and Slavery/Serfdom to work alongside one another. Post #2 for new Civic ideas in more detail.
A few more techs in the current tree.
Largely, I like it as it is. But I would add the occasional extra tech, mostly of a social/psychological bent. Only a handful, probably not more than half a dozen.
Future Eras.
This would be, if you will, the meat 'n' potatoes of the Expanded Civ 4. It would take the game right through from the typical start position to a distant future, in the style of SMAC or GalCiv. It forms the basis for a number of my other ideas, too. Please see post #3 for a more detailed look at some potential new techs.
Robots and cloning make a big change to forces.
This is a tricky one. I want robotic forces, androids and the like, as well as clones, to make a significant change to how war is waged. However, I can't think of a way of doing so without making pre-robotics units more difficult to produce, and I don't want to make warmongering only a post-2100 pastime. If possible, perhaps have a cumulatively rising cost of maintaining military units? Eg, the 10th to 14th units cost 1gpt, whilst the 15th to 19th cost 2gpt, and so on? A more extreme idea is for each military unit built to reduce the city's population by 1 point, and eliminating this for robot/cloned units. It would mean cities needed population as well as production to create an army, and would prevent anything too large being built too quickly. On the other hand, it would sorely cripple a civ who didn't have enough units to begin with, because they'd not be able to produce enough units for a war effort before they got wiped out. This needs more thought, but is something I'm adamant should be included in some way.
Geniuses can give random techs.
A 1 in lots and lots (10000) per turn chance of a civ recieving a free tech from those currently available. Just for a random chance event, I think it'd add a little spice and could help you out now and then.
More negative happiness/health effects from buildings.
This would be required in order to balance it out in the future eras. After all, by the time the game comes to a close normally your core cities are usually free from significant unrest and unhealthiness. (At least they are with me, but I'm a building-oriented player.) But this requires a lot more thought and investigation before anything concrete could be done.
More tile improvements.
Mainly for the future eras. Better farms and the like. Also, ideally the graphics would end up making it look like the tiles around a city are part of the city, directly joined, if the right improvements are built. Also, some more improvements which act like Cottage -> Town chains do. For example: Furnace -> Factory -> Industrial Plant -> Industrial Sector, offering increasing production bonuses. This would allow cities to become more powerful by the late game, which works well as the future is generally accepted to be (And in my ideas here, will be) a place where production = up.
Unit specific training camps.
This is an interesting one. I was thinking, what about building a training camp? You could, for example, find some place out in the hills and mountains, and plunk a camp down there. Every, say, 15 turns, it would jam out a Rifleman. I don't know. I certainly don't know how to make the AI use it. I would say, don't let them be built within city boundaries, and make them fairly expensive so you can only have one or two at a time. I dunno. The more I think about it the less spiffy the idea seems, but I still kinda like it for some reason.
More religions, and optional caps on their numbers.
I'd say maybe have a total of 12 possible religions. More importantly, set it up so that it's possible for a player to say that no more than 'X' number can be in a game at once - too often have I had 4 or 5 civ games with 7 religions, and it just doesn't feel right. This would allow both larger and smaller religious blocs to form.
Secessions.
If there are fewer civs remaining than the number you started with, it would be cool if individual cities could desire indepedance. This would be best if they were barbarian cities, or previously foreign ones. It should of course be preventable with a little work, but I think it's a good medium between nothing at all and all-out civil wars.
Empire Earth-style planet/space maps.
The problem is it is kinda strange to see a barracks, or in Civ 4's case a city, sitting on a tile next to a space tile. On the other hand, it would allow you to create maps where there were worlds with continents, and then space between the worlds, allowing for both normal gameplay and future-era stuff as well.
Well, that's what I have right now. I'm also actually out of time, so I'll just put a couple of placeholders into the next two posts and then update with more ideas later. Feel free to debate and insult as you please, most of the ideas are probably far more atrocious than I am aware!
Nevertheless, I've been buzzing with ideas and I have compiled a list of possibilities that would, I think, make the Civ 4 experience much larger and more intricate. I admit now and fully that this is not for everyone; it would make some significant changes and additions, most notably a series of future eras. Many people feel that Civ should be about history up to this point, and even things like SDI and Civ 3's Cure for Cancer are pushing it. Fair enough, I say! Just so long as everyone is having fun, and I think I would have more fun if my ideas were worked in somehow.
Oh, and I have little coding knowhow, so many of my ideas might be entirely unworkable! =D Because of this, I'm going to say that anyone may take any aspect they like the look of here and do whatever the like with it. If y'all want to form a team to implement a fair chunk of my ideas, that's great too, but just take what you like, if anything. All I ask is that you give credit where it is due.
Well, I've tabulated my ideas in my notepad, so I suppose I'll just go through that in order...
Eliminate the 'Time' victory condition.
Civ does not have to be uber-realistic, but the fact of the matter is that in 45 year's time, when we're right in the middle of a new Cold War between the US and China, and when there's some series wars going on in the Middle East, we're not going to suddenly stop and say 'Oh, Canada won!' I always turn the time condition of when I can, or extend it as much as possible, because I'd rather play a game which results in a stalemate than have it end because of that.
Rethinking of the year/turn measurement system.
My answer is to have the discovery of the Calendar as Year 0, and for it to advance from there in a similar manner to the way it does now. Perhaps not having 40 year leaps to begin with, however. Of course, it could be possible to simply have each turn equal 1 year after the discovery of calendar, because we wouldn't be working on the prior model of 2050 being the end date, if my above suggestion is implemented.
Replace the Space Race victory with something else.
Largely this is a necessity because the expanded tech tree would last long past the Space Race. An idea I had last night which appeals to me greatly is for a civ to be able to construct an alternate dimension into which they can go, being the only civ there, and 'winning' because they made not only a massive technological achievement but because they are now essentially gods. An easier one would be a Doomsday Device, which would instantly bring the world under the builder's control.
'High' balancing, SMAC-style.
Civ 4 is leagues ahead of 3 in this matter, but I really loved the way SMAC allowed you to become truly powerful. With the inclusion of future techs, this would be possible here as well, as tiles provide large benefits when improved properly, for example, and buildsings continue to confer XP/health/research bonuses, and so forth.
More Civics/New category.
The new category would be something like 'Miscellaneous', and if possible would allow some civics to be toggled on and off rather than only one being allowed at a time. It's perfectly possible, for example, for a Caste System and Slavery/Serfdom to work alongside one another. Post #2 for new Civic ideas in more detail.
A few more techs in the current tree.
Largely, I like it as it is. But I would add the occasional extra tech, mostly of a social/psychological bent. Only a handful, probably not more than half a dozen.
Future Eras.
This would be, if you will, the meat 'n' potatoes of the Expanded Civ 4. It would take the game right through from the typical start position to a distant future, in the style of SMAC or GalCiv. It forms the basis for a number of my other ideas, too. Please see post #3 for a more detailed look at some potential new techs.
Robots and cloning make a big change to forces.
This is a tricky one. I want robotic forces, androids and the like, as well as clones, to make a significant change to how war is waged. However, I can't think of a way of doing so without making pre-robotics units more difficult to produce, and I don't want to make warmongering only a post-2100 pastime. If possible, perhaps have a cumulatively rising cost of maintaining military units? Eg, the 10th to 14th units cost 1gpt, whilst the 15th to 19th cost 2gpt, and so on? A more extreme idea is for each military unit built to reduce the city's population by 1 point, and eliminating this for robot/cloned units. It would mean cities needed population as well as production to create an army, and would prevent anything too large being built too quickly. On the other hand, it would sorely cripple a civ who didn't have enough units to begin with, because they'd not be able to produce enough units for a war effort before they got wiped out. This needs more thought, but is something I'm adamant should be included in some way.
Geniuses can give random techs.
A 1 in lots and lots (10000) per turn chance of a civ recieving a free tech from those currently available. Just for a random chance event, I think it'd add a little spice and could help you out now and then.
More negative happiness/health effects from buildings.
This would be required in order to balance it out in the future eras. After all, by the time the game comes to a close normally your core cities are usually free from significant unrest and unhealthiness. (At least they are with me, but I'm a building-oriented player.) But this requires a lot more thought and investigation before anything concrete could be done.
More tile improvements.
Mainly for the future eras. Better farms and the like. Also, ideally the graphics would end up making it look like the tiles around a city are part of the city, directly joined, if the right improvements are built. Also, some more improvements which act like Cottage -> Town chains do. For example: Furnace -> Factory -> Industrial Plant -> Industrial Sector, offering increasing production bonuses. This would allow cities to become more powerful by the late game, which works well as the future is generally accepted to be (And in my ideas here, will be) a place where production = up.
Unit specific training camps.
This is an interesting one. I was thinking, what about building a training camp? You could, for example, find some place out in the hills and mountains, and plunk a camp down there. Every, say, 15 turns, it would jam out a Rifleman. I don't know. I certainly don't know how to make the AI use it. I would say, don't let them be built within city boundaries, and make them fairly expensive so you can only have one or two at a time. I dunno. The more I think about it the less spiffy the idea seems, but I still kinda like it for some reason.
More religions, and optional caps on their numbers.
I'd say maybe have a total of 12 possible religions. More importantly, set it up so that it's possible for a player to say that no more than 'X' number can be in a game at once - too often have I had 4 or 5 civ games with 7 religions, and it just doesn't feel right. This would allow both larger and smaller religious blocs to form.
Secessions.
If there are fewer civs remaining than the number you started with, it would be cool if individual cities could desire indepedance. This would be best if they were barbarian cities, or previously foreign ones. It should of course be preventable with a little work, but I think it's a good medium between nothing at all and all-out civil wars.
Empire Earth-style planet/space maps.
The problem is it is kinda strange to see a barracks, or in Civ 4's case a city, sitting on a tile next to a space tile. On the other hand, it would allow you to create maps where there were worlds with continents, and then space between the worlds, allowing for both normal gameplay and future-era stuff as well.
Well, that's what I have right now. I'm also actually out of time, so I'll just put a couple of placeholders into the next two posts and then update with more ideas later. Feel free to debate and insult as you please, most of the ideas are probably far more atrocious than I am aware!
That didn't even occur to me. That'd be far better, would allow for more deviation between the worlds, would allow plenty of stuff. Brilliant!
