I just can't win with theodora.

[gunslinger6792]

No matter what i do i just can't seem to play well with theodora. I play on continents, king, epic pace and nothing i seem to do works. nearly all the maps the i get suck i've tried 50 different maps. ive been put on islands, peninsula with a capitol 5 hexes, massive jungles, and half continent sized deserts. If by some miracle i get some starting place that works i get stuck 2 to 3 warmongers. from there im barely holding on while they pop out cities like rabbits. my tech sucks and my cities are always small. so my question is this how the heck does someone play this civ. I've never had this problem with china, usa, celts, spain, and Ethiopia.

 

[nefloyd]

Really? With Theo?

Be aggressive in founding a religion and spreading it like wildfire. With Tithing (+1 gold per 4 followers) and (I forget the name?) (+2 gold per city following the religion), which only Byzantine can take as a combo, you can have loads of gold pouring in, if you get that religion pumping everywhere. A desert start is even nice for them because the +1 faith per desert tile is about the biggest faith increase you can get if you have a big swathe of it around.

If you aren't founding a religion as Theo, you're basically wasting the whole UU, and if you're not aggressive with it, you're not leveraging it that well. Byzantine has the most adaptable religion possibilities. 'Just Defenders' and/or 'Faith Healers' for religion perks can really make defending these cities a breeze.

Everything else would seem to be your general strategy, if you had really outlined what you do.

I usually pop a monument first thing while researching pottery, follow with a shrine, then straight into a settler - while taking liberty left side in social policies. Usually end up completing the built settler plus getting the free one at nearly the same time. Gets you up to 3 cities pretty quickly, which is usually the limit before other civs start "we hate your aggressive expansion" on you. If there are warmonger civs, pick more defensive locations, like on top of a hill, or on the side of a river away from them (or both!) instead of the perfect layout for resources. If YOU want to be aggressive, found your cities towards their land and save land "behind" you for later expansion. If you wanna be more defensive, settle away from them, because going near them will usually get "we covet your lands" and you can be sure an attack is incoming.

And if you really wanna mess up an attacking AI's army, drop your great general into a path they're likely to walk through - 2 hexes out from a city is great, because they'll continually walk through it and die attacking that city.

 

[theadder]

I completed a game as Theodora just now.

I took Tithes for the first time and ended up in an almost perpetual golden age with an income in excess of 600 gold per turn. It is very powerful if you pick the correct extra belief; I combined it with Ceremonial Burial for essentially limitless happiness.

I started in the desert and began with Desert Folklore.

Get the pantheon and then religion started as soon as possible.

 

[Kaveh]

Massive jungles are great, especially with Byzantine and "The sacred path" (think +1 culture per pop in the early game). Jungles will give you extra science with universities too. I usually go for "+1 gold per 4 followers" and "+2 gold per city", as nefloyd suggested. But you can spice it up by adding "+1 culture per 5 followers" for a cultural twist, or one of the scientific beliefs for a science edge.

 

[SlithyTove]

Odd thing about Theo is that she gets the extra religious belief, but doesn't have any advantage in getting a religion founded.

So, even pushing faith hard early you often get stuck founding the third or fourth religion and get an extra of all the beliefs no one else wanted.

Combine some of the bonus-for-followers beliefs along with the ones that help you spread religion and Theo can be quite beastly.

You do have to watch making enemies by spreading religion to people who don't want it though.

 

[Otheon]

I've only played one game as Theodora so far, my first game after getting G&K, and was doing quite well until Austria ran away with their damn OP CS buying ability. I didn't know then that if you find Austria in your game you take them out early.

 

[theadder]

I've not had any problems founding an early, and even the first, religion. Build a very early shrine and work from there. Stonehenge is also very valuable.

 

[SlithyTove]

I've not had any problems founding an early, and even the first, religion. Build a very early shrine and work from there. Stonehenge is also very valuable.

Depends on the difficulty. Just had an Immortal Boudicca game where I had the +2 faith from the start for forest tiles, Stonehenge, a shrine, and a couple Celtic warriors out gathering faith from killing barbs and Americans, and I still only got the second religion. Theo would have been locked out of a religion at all on that map.

 

[prince_caspian]

On immortal I could still found a religion as Byzantium and I was the first to enhance, and even though immortal wars are quite scary I still took out one civ with the help of Askia (who is really one hellish river warlord on immortal). King is much much easier, AIs basically just laze around like it's a very fine day to chat with other leaders. Maybe you should evaluate your approach.

 

[Polycrates]

Here's how to play Theodora:
1) Buy a copy of George Michael's Greatest Hits
2) Put "Faith" on infinite repeat while you're playing
Because I gotta have faith, faith, faith

You're a bit hamstrung in that you've got a massive religious bonus, but no bonus for actually getting there. My experience is that you just have to accept the fact that you're going to be underdeveloped in the early game as you throw everything at getting your religion up and running quickly. Choose a pantheon that increases faith generation and settle cities near sites that give you faith. If you're lucky enough to find a holy mountain, settle it NOW. Beeline Philosophy, get the first two Piety policies and build cities full of shrines and temples everywhere. Go for Stonehenge if you're desperate and you think you can make it. Try and ally a religious CS if possible. Anything that will get you faith, do it. The early game is gonna suck, but it's worth it in the end.

As far as how to build your religion, well it depends on the circumstances (and what's left), but taking both Tithes and Church Property was netting me 200 gold per turn by the end of the renaissance in my last game, so that can work. I also found that taking follower beliefs that give bonuses for temples (Religious Community first and Feed the Poor for enhancer) was an excellent choice, since you'll have these everywhere and they're cheaper and more effective anyway with Piety. If you're going for the gold-giving founder beliefs, I would go for an enhancer that makes your religion spread better - but Just War or Defender of the Faith are excellent if you want to wage a lot of war.

As to the cataphract and dromon, I don't think they really support an early rush. On the other hand, the cataphract with its high speed, good strength and defensive bonuses is excellent for defending wherever it's needed on the cheap - while you focus on religion and then play catchup afterwards. It also has a long shelf life, and can do excellent service as a frontline unit on offense as well once your economy has kicked back into gear.
The dromon makes a nice additional defender for coastal cities since it gives you an extra "safe shot" from within the city, but otherwise unlikely to reward huge investment.

 

[theadder]

This is currently Emperor rather than Immortal, before I move back up again; perhaps that accounts for some of it. Still, if you have sufficient cities and Shrines, I think that it is possible.

 

[Adjuvant]

This is how I played Byzantium last time, couple nights ago, emperor, epic pace.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=11623070#post11623070

 

[Feyd Rautha]

One thing I note also is that their UU (Cataphract) is actually quite good for those times you get dogpiled. You can respond quickly and if you end your movement on the front lines they receive defensive bonuses. It really helps you keep high promotion horsemen into the next age.

 

[bonafide11]

I played my first game of GnK with Theodora and it was my easiest game yet. On Emperor, I won in 1850 by conquest, my religion dominated the entire world. I had two enhancer beliefs to make sure it spread fast. If you commit to finding a religion, you can easily find a religion, regardless of not having a faith bonus. What, there are only 3 civs with faith bonuses right? Many civs are pretty passive with faith in the early game, you are pretty much guaranteed a religion if you try for it. Then just work on spreading it and conquer rival religions.

 

[Xile]

I prefer religious texts + tithes + whatever. Religious texts just get stronger as the game progresses while missionaries become weaker and having to spam loads of them cost you great people, as well.

Theodora has the worst UA in game on higher difficulties where you can't reliably found a religion, never mind get decent beliefs. Even if you can found a religion early the one extra belief is very weak, unless going for cultural win.

The UUs are horrible, well, dromon is good since you can farm 2 levels on barbs and have +range ships earlier than otherwise, but it only works on few map scripts. Cataphracts come too early to be useful, because early rushes in G&K are not really worth it and horseback riding is a bad tech to rush regardless.

 

[SlithyTove]

This is currently Emperor rather than Immortal, before I move back up again; perhaps that accounts for some of it. Still, if you have sufficient cities and Shrines, I think that it is possible.

Founding a religion at all on Deity can be dicey. Though if you didn't get a religion as Theo on Deity it's time to re-roll. Deity is hard enough without writing off your UA.

At Immortal you will be able to found one, you just won't be getting first pick in all likelihood. Probably 2nd or 3rd if you focus heavily on it. Mayans, Ethiopians, and Celts will always win in a fair race and at Immortal the race isn't fair at all. So you just have to be adaptable and get a strategy together based on what you get instead of planning for a particular set of beliefs. Still good fun.

 

[Brichals]

Here's how to play Theodora:
1) Buy a copy of George Michael's Greatest Hits
2) Put "Faith" on infinite repeat while you're playing
Because I gotta have faith, faith, faith

lol!

It's true I think the religious civs are a bit tricky because you have to be really active with the religion.

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

It would be nice if Byzantines had some help in actually getting their religion. On the harder difficulties it becomes a bit dicey depending on how religion flavored your enemies are. Something like cheaper Shrines and Temples (like the Piety opener) would be wonderful and let you start collecting a few points of Faith earlier; nothing game-breaking in the slightest.

Starting near a Religious City-state is very nice in getting your Pantheon and Religion founded as early as possible. 8 Faith for discovering the city-state first is nearly a Pantheon in and of itself. Save cash to become friends with them as soon as possible and do their quests. You may want to re-roll if you don't start near any religious city-states as the Byzantines, on hard difficulties.

 

[gunslinger6792]

whats killing me more than anything else is the mapscripter. i've never had so many bad starts, when i do finally get a good start im stuck with 3 to 4 warmongers per continent.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Huh... I tried 2 times, and both were very good to say the least, first game I skyrocketed so high it wasn't even funny. I constructed almost every unit in 1 turn (buildings in 2-3) in the capital. I even started a new coz the game went so ridiculously good I though I accidentally played on "Chieftain".

Though it gets on my nerves getting inland starts all the time... what the hell is up with that? I thought it should obviously be a coastal start civ, and yet...