I Need to be Retrained

[MAS]

So most of us agree: you can win Deity playing OCP, builder style!

I would still suggest trying different routes so that you can learn of its power.
I think it will also help you learn making priorities better, even if you switch back to builder style again later.

 

[darski]

My suggestion would be to play as the Civ you hate to find near you in a game. If they scare you, they must have something (more than just the AI bonuses) to offer as a learning experience. It really is a matter of facing yourself on this issue: do you or do you not want to improve? If your answer is "not really" then forget it and play the game you like with your comfortable Agri civs. If your answer is that you do want to improve then you have to be willing to move one foot forward and just do it.

I am still messing about at Warlord and Regent but I was only able to move up when I was willing to hit that "Random" button and play whatever game I got.

 

[OThePestO]

Actually I've just won a game on demi-god doing all of that which u wanted to.


....so it can be done.......I only have the final save file if u want it.

 

[soul_warrior]

tribute,
have you ever done an Always War game?
i strongly advise you do that.
if you can win a AW, Monarch as PORTUGAL on STD Pangea, you can win 2, maybe 3 level up.

links to articles:
warmongering 101
Pillaging....
Advanced Combat: Artillery

i think i will try one "AWM porto Pang" this weekend.
should be fun.

 

[Spoonwood]

I think this article here will help a lot http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=122419.

I've used the strategy for what I would deem "massive success" on emperor without starting a war for a GA... on a standard size map. I ended up with a 1305 diplomatic victory (I got lucky and got a SGL when I discovered motorized transportation, then rushed the UN). I think the English had the closest tech position and they were researching combustion or maybe mass production. Again, I did that on a standard size map with 8 tribes. I've tried to implement the strategy basically without the golden age on demi-god twice so far... once I got attacked by the Chinese when they had riders and just quit there since I hadn't upgraded my warriors. Another one I tried as the Dutch on an archipelago map, but only built 11 or 12 cities. I researched printing press right after the Great Library turned off, but the other big tribes finished researching it just before me. I stayed on a little bit trying to build both Magellan's Voyage and Smith's Trading Company, but basically a wonder cascade hit and I realized I really started to lag behind in tech. I don't think I would have had quit the same problems on a huge map though, since the AIs would have had more wars, and consequently a slower tech pace. I just don't like waiting for my slow computer to get to the next turn on huge maps (or fear my turns would come as REALLY, REALLY slow as I got to the modern ages).

I think builders get a very bad rap since they blindly build. We need more and better tips on how to build intelligently... even simple ones perhaps such as "if you will soon have your science rate at 0% or 10% don't even think about building a library... build marketplaces, and conversely if you will soon have your tax rate at 0% or 10% don't even think about building a marketplace (unless you need more luxuries)." I'd think huger maps also help for higher levels, since your cities experience less corruption.

 

[axehaxe]

Tribute

You're ready for Deity but a couple of things you've mentioned will get you nowhere...

CxxC is the absolute greatest basic strategy that you can use. You can do true RCP, you're 1 move military units can easily transfer and cascade across your cities where they are badly needed, and you can fit more cities into your empire. All three are things the AI never does and is one grand reason why they always lose...

Also, agri is a good trait but so is industrious and scientific. Games good for your first deity try are:

Greeks Pangea Huge 60% No Barbs
Vikings Arch Huge 70% No Barbs
Byzantines Arch Huge 70% No Barbs

Relying on agri civs can be dangerous if their other trait and/or their unique unit is a bad match (ie: Dutch and Sumerians)

An impossible game you can either play as a challenge or if you think losing is funny:

Dutch, 80%, standard or smaller, raging barbs, 7 civs most aggressive, SID
(YOU WILL DIE)

 

[Spoonwood]

"City spacing: I refuse to CXXC all my cities! No way! It's so tight! CXXC is an average distance of 3, and CXXXC is 4. Then mine is about 3.8."

I've won two games on Demigod with basically something like a 3.8 spacing msyelf. I didn't build much military and very few if any "specialist farms". See the final spoiler for COTM48, and the Achtung Panzer post for saves (the French game and the Byzantines). I basically used the strategy outlined here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3885925&t=2384#post3885925

You'll notice I didn't have agricultural as a trait in either game, and also consider the following... if you build a worker pump which produces workers from size 5 on for a while, and then *add* in workers until the rest of your cities reach size twelve (and for that worker pump/pumps city eventually), and possibly later after hospitals, the agricultural trait doesn't become as important as it might otherwise seem. I haven't done that, but from Chanminx's analysis in another discussion, it seems rather powerful. Wider spacing on Deity comes out as tougher in general, but following Drakan's strategy you probably won't need much military and specialist. Also, I have a Korea save around here for a Deity archipelago game where I had wide spacing going. I just stopped playing it, because it seemed unattractive for some reason.

 

[Spoonwood]

You can find the France demi-god save here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=263213&page=11
the Byzantine demi-god save here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=274997
the Korea Deity archipelago save here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=277419
and Chamnix's calculations and ideas about worker pumps and adding them in, as well as some discussion on such here
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=277648

So, in conclusion concerning city spacing and "higher" levels... play on archipelago maps (NO barbarians.. you probably won't like them on Demi-God and almost surely not on Deity or sedentary barbarians), pick warm, wet, 5 billion maps (SirPleb has said they tend to come as food rich, and he seems right... less desert at least), pick 60% water maps since that favors the build, probably large or huge maps at the start (get used to a longer turn-time between turns as the game goes on... do the dishes in between or something), maybe standard maps once you get the feel of it. Warm, wet, 5 billion will also help you get away from the agricultural trait, as you'll have more food to start with. I don't know about continent maps, but for 15 tribes Deity on a Huge map, you can and probably will feel "boxed in" and you'll begin to understand why they call it a "forbidden" palace, as getting the ability to build it seems "forbidden" at that level almost if you don't take territory from the AI/war scavange or have a really good start.

Use of Chamnix's strategy of mass-adding in workers to get faster growing towns after the ReX phase to take your towns to size twelve ASAP.... this helps to offset the advantages of the agricultural trait... and then use it again in the age of hospitals so that you have metros with fully worked tiles AND specialists in your metros. That should offset *some* of the problems the original post expressed concerns about.

Also, concerning wide spacing, you can always play with fewer tribes on demi-god or deity. You probably won't get boxed in as easily. You can also set up the game so that it feels like an easier game... see T-Hawk's first Deity game here: http://www.dos486.com/civ3/solodeity/

As a disclaimer to cxxc spacers, I haven't argued *here* that wide spacing works better than tight spacing... I've just shown it as viable on higher levels. And I doubt that comments like these "CxxC is the absolute greatest basic strategy that you can use." really help the player who posted this... even if it holds true.