importance of space program's?

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

i have the feeling that ,with the end of the cold war ,There has been a lot of cut-back's in space exploration program's.My question.How important are funding is space program's the day of today.Should we invest way more in it so that humankind could expand it's culture beyond it's mother planet more quiclier? Should we invest our money on space program's in other way's ,like building settlement's opposed to space stations.Or building more exploration equipment?

In general ,how do you feel about the current progression of mankind into space?

 

[CornMaster]

Although I feel that progress is going far too slowly, I feel it's going in the right direction.

I think it's imperative that mankind expand in our solar system, and beyond. The Earth will not last forever, and humanity has an insasable thurst for exploration and expansion.

Earth will run out of room, before it's polluted or destroyed, thus space stations and moon/Mars colonization should be first on our list. However...at our current engine development the ISS is esential to our further expansion. We need a feuling station and jump off point for further mission. We also need a base to perform experiments. The more we learn about space and construction and biology in space the faster we can get there. Do you weightlessness in space, it would be FAR EASIER to construct our large buildings in space and then float them down to Earth.

Anyway....needless to say, I find it VERY IMPORTANT!!!

 

[H Tower]

i was happy with the development of the space program, unitl they started with the ISS, the cost of buiding that thing would have really helped out down here, and I haven't seen what benefits it is bringing. If they have to spend the money on the space program, couldn' they put the money towards colonization of other planets?

Another problem i have with the ISS is that the US is funding so much of it, we're PAYING the russians to build their parts of the station! if the exploration of space is going to an international effort, the US shouldn't have to be paying other countries to participate. if they want to help explore, let them add a little funding to the project.

 

[jc011]

Did they really land on the moon??? I hear that that was just a big hoax?? Anyone agree?? I think it may be a hoax, it just seems to unrealistic.

 

[CornMaster]

Originally posted by H Tower
i was happy with the development of the space program, unitl they started with the ISS, the cost of buiding that thing would have really helped out down here, and I haven't seen what benefits it is bringing. If they have to spend the money on the space program, couldn' they put the money towards colonization of other planets?

The benefits of the ISS aren't going to appartant until years after it's completed. The short term gains are going to be through expermintation with plants/animals and space construction techniques, and testing technology. These won't be felt by the general public.

However the long term gains are much more significant. With info gathered in the short term we can build bigger and more habital bases. Allowing people to live full time in space. As I said in my first post, it will be a refeuling and launching bay for further missions, and possible a spaceship construction base. It is also an icon of internation space exploration cooperation! Imagine if the Russians and Americans were cooperating on all space exploration from the get go.....we would be to Mars or farther by now!!! The ISS being the cooperation among many countries paves the way for future missions. The ICS (International Space Colony), ISCC (International Space Construction Center), ICoMM (International Cooperative of Moon Miners) <---I like this one.

Anyway....I'm really tired...so more tomorrow.

 

[knowltok]

That's a hell of a hoax to pull off. I suppose we staged the Apollo 13 mission just for dramatic effect? Too many people involved. Too much to cover up. Too much face to lose in future years if it came out or someone went there and didn't find what was left behind.

As far as space exploration. I am all for it. The universe is a huge place and it is inconcievable to me that we are alone in it. Our own history has shown many times that it generally doesn't go well for the less advanced culture when two cultures meet. We need to get out there, spread our culture, and harvest the resources. Space is the next new world, only writ large. When history looks back on this time 500 or 1,000 years from now they will compare it to the 1490's. The fate of nations and cultures will hinge on the development and eventual colinization of space.

As far as the ISS, I think we are helping the Russians because they have certain expertises that the ISS needs. Heavy lifting is one of the big ones.

It may also windup that the ISS makes the cost of planetary explorations so much cheaper vs. sending them directly from earth that it, in a sense, pays for itself. Hard to say at this point.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

The ISS has been cut back so much that much of the basic research that can be done will probably be cut just to pay for basic operating costs.
With the oil still flowing, this is the best possible time for building up mankind's presence in space - the "Earth First" brigade may think that the money is better spent down here, but with the resources up there, we would be mad not to go for it. Why dig huge mines to extract ever lower concentrations of ores on Earth when the whole Solar System is out there ready and waiting? Rather than waste money on prestige missions like Mars landings, we should plan for the long term here.

Recomended reading: A Step Farther Out by Jerry Pournelle

 

[dreadhead7]

I'm all for space exploration, and think that we'll eventually have to expand outward because I don't know if the Earth can handle much more. Maybe the ISS will be a precoursor to setting up a Ringworld-like environment to live in. I'd hope that in the future everyone would have the opportunity to live in space, and not just the rich and powerful.

 

[CornMaster]

I tell you one thing...when they start sending untrained civilians into space....I'll be the first in line!!!

 

[Apollo]

Originally posted by knowltok
That's a hell of a hoax to pull off. I suppose we staged the Apollo 13 mission just for dramatic effect?

You mean the Apollo 13 story actually happened? I thought it was a fictional movie, like The Alamo and Patton. --Just another teen brought up in the sheltered world of television.

I think that space exploration is very important for our survival as a species, but remember, when you talk about running out of oil and natural gas and needing to find these fuels in space, they only exist where carbon-based life has lived and died. Another possible solution to running out of things on this planet lies in chemistry, and being able to take atoms we have and turn them into other atoms by working with the subatomic particles.

 

[adamsj]

The Space program is important for it side-effects along, as most of the techs in last 56 years has been because of the space program!

 

[SkidiWili]

Space colonization really sounds like a horrible thing. There's no way to gain financial gain from it. And if we can't take care of current world, then why should we be allowed to leave it and spread like a cancer troughout the universe? Really, once we fix things downhere, we should start to think about spreading to other worlds.

But space programs aren't just about colonization. The ISS program can really give some scientific gains. And the industrial possibilities of Earth's orbit and moon. Creation of very science fictionictic space elevator is in fact possible, and with it mass transfers of matter and resources become much easier. The orbit offers a zero-gravity which can be used very extensivly by some future industrial facilities, mainly perhaps chemical plants.

Mining in moon is one way to gain profit. Can't remember what it was in the moon which could be collected and used as clean source of energy. And collecting and sending that stuff to back to Earth was almost profitable with just space ships. And imagine doing it with space elevator. The profit would huge and new source of energy could be used.

(I think that stuff had something to do with the fact that moon has no atmosphere of oxygen or any other kind. If moon had oxygen, then the stuff would have already 'burned' up)

 

[polymath]

We've got to do stuff in space. Like in Alpha Centauri, we have to move heavy industry off-planet. Orbital insertion would be cool too.
We're going to have to move eventually, so we might as well get a head start.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by jc011
Did they really land on the moon??? I hear that that was just a big hoax?? Anyone agree?? I think it may be a hoax,

T D T L

 

[TheDuckOfFlanders]

T D T L

i agree

No serious ,what the hell does that suppose to mean?

About ISS: I'm not very optimistic about that particular project.I think the need for scientific research in space is not that big these days.We have already learned a lot from MIR and varios satelite's.For now it think we schould set our priority's on space exploration ,especially on recource exploration. (and hey ,you never now if we stumble on a goody hut )
Such big prestige project's are quite expensive.And maybe for long term reason's we schould save our energy a bit form ore pressing project's.

We schould also make more research on small though potent space exploring and infrastructure building rocket's.
Maybe it would be possible (givven that the particular planet has the nessecary recources) to build small probe's that build colony'd on planet's with the recources findable on those planet's.Kinda like a small automated colony builder ,relying on the recources of that particular planet rather than on earth's recource's. (that have to come way from earth) Colony's ,that could in it's final stage build small exporting probe's that could transport goods to earth.

Launching interplanatery probe's into space to any particular destination is much more expensive than launching such probe's from other planet's with Motherplanet Earth as destination. (givven that the escape-velocity is much smaller ofcourse )
i think in the first stage's of space colonization we schould more aim for space comming towards us rather than we going in space.

I don't see any particular reason for humankind to colonize space if the over population on earth isn't to big.Once we have reached overpopulation on earth ,only then we will have the need for emmigration to inhabitable planet's/colony's.
But for the rest (ex. recource extraxtion or transportation) ,i think computer's can do the job for us.

The satelite is the perfect example of the things we should build.It's small (=cost effective) and can do a perfect job.

 

[knowltok]

I agree that prestige missions can wait, but then again, Mars is a planet and could have all kinds of resources that the asteroid belt may not. Despite my role on a major space exploration show, I am not an astrophysicist. I do think we need to be looking at making space pay, but we need to be thinking long term here. A hundred years is not unreasonable in my mind for some planning. A lot will change, but we can't take the same 3 year ROI perspective that we do here on Earth.

Space exploration is a lot like the European exploration of the New World. We won't always find what we are looking for (NW Passage), there will be dangers along the way (Weather, Natives, pirates), the riches will be beyond our imaginings (Compare the industrial power of The Western Hemisphere to some furs and tobacco), and the fate of nations will me made and lost based upon the new world (Spain, Portugal, England)

BTW, I'm right behind CornMaster in that line.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

And if we can't take care of current world, then why should we be allowed to leave it and spread like a cancer troughout the universe? Really, once we fix things downhere, we should start to think about spreading to other worlds.

My belief is that the first real understanding of enviromental systems won't come until we start to run Space colonies. Running a small, closed system like a Moon base or O'Niell colony will be the ultimate test in ecological management.

We've got to do stuff in space. Like in Alpha Centauri, we have to move heavy industry off-planet. Orbital insertion would be cool too.
We're going to have to move eventually, so we might as well get a head start.

Hear hear! My sentiments exactly.

I think the need for scientific research in space is not that big these days

The trouble with scientific research of course, is that you don't know what your going to find out until you do it. There may be nothing new to discover. Or there may be some fantastic new physical/chemical principles that could revolutionise the way we look at the Universe, and lead to a whole new future. Without this kind of "blue sky" research we'll never know. Only just over a century ago, some scientists were saying that we knew all there was to know, that it was just a matter of tidying up the existing theories - less than a decade later, Einstein published the Special Theory of Relativity.

but we need to be thinking long term here

True. This is what depresses me the most of course. Few governments these days look any farther than the next election.


The key to the development of Space is an inexpensive launch platform, without this our future in Space will be the preserve of governments - and I can't think of a less appropriate group of people to put in charge of this kind of endeavour.
During the Ming period in China, a series of expeditions was undertaken by the great Chinese Admiral Cheng Ho. These voyages were stopped by the Chinese gov (who passed laws against the building of ocean-going ships) because it was felt more important to focus on issues closer to home. The result? Stagnation of the Chinese civilization, then one of the greatest in the world. We NEED new frontiers.

 

[amadeus]

Originally posted by jc011
Did they really land on the moon??? I hear that that was just a big hoax?? Anyone agree?? I think it may be a hoax, it just seems to unrealistic.

The government pull off a hoax like THAT?

If that's really true, well, then it's probaly the greatest thing that the United States government has ever done...

It proves that the government can actually do the job that the taxpayers pay for. That would be truly stunning.

 

[Atros]

space programs are essential to mankind's survival, because of growing population , soon there will not be enough space for people to live in, and the space used by people means less farmland meaning less food, so leading to starvation. Also, even if people recycle everything they use (which is not very possible since you can't recycle everything) , the earth will still run out of resources , recycling is not a solution, it is merely buying time. Also, emission of greenhouse gases cannot be prevented because most of the world's power is produced by fossil fuels, there are not enough rivers to dam for hydroelectric and wind and solar power produce very little power, so if you stop burning fossil fuels, means a lot of people will have no electricity, and freeze to death without heating, unless they burn wood to keep warm, which produces greenhouse gases.
Therefore, mankind has gotta find some new land.

The main problem of space flight is actually getting into space in the first place, flying in space does not actually use much fuel, it is in the atmosphere that most of the fuel is used due to the earth's gravity, a way must be found to get the ships into space, maybe like the space lift thing in SMAC.

However, the real problem is countries are short-sighted and are reluctant to spend large amount of money on something that has no real benefits in the short term, they are afraid that it might cause their government to be unpopular as the money comes from people's taxes

 

[knowltok]

However, the real problem is countries are short-sighted and are reluctant to spend large amount of money on something that has no real benefits in the short term, they are afraid that it might cause their government to be unpopular as the money comes from people's taxes

Absolutely correct. Comes back to my point about the similarities between space exploration and European exploration. Columbus had difficulties getting funding too.