Imports or Exports of grains (Soybeans, Corn, Wheat, etc.)

[Duque de Ferro]

How about adding the possibility of importing grains that provide food bonuses? Currently in the geopolitical scenario, we have noticed a fierce dispute in the import of grains, European countries like Germany and France fighting fiercely to break the Brazilian monopoly in the export of soybeans and other essential foods, and China has been doing more and more maneuvers to devalue the Brazilian grains and with this to buy Brazilian food practically for free. So think about the possibility of trying in some way to reproduce these scenarios of economic disputes in civilization 6, it would be fun to see countries denouncing others to get lower prices for their grains. Agreements to import gold by shift in exchange for wheat, soybeans, corn or any other type of valuable and vital resource for any civilization that wants to be a power.

Food and agriculture have proven themselves throughout history as a STRATEGIC AND VITAL RESOURCE. The lack of food has always been a problem to be faced, the lack of food generates revolts and revolutions, this is how the communists came to power, through the stomach of the poor of France and Russia.

Lack of food also generated and continues to generate friction in the armed forces, desertions and riots in ships, cities or any other place where there is a lack of food. Today China is running out of time to feed its more than 1.3 BILLION HABITANTS, because they know that without food their regime will collapse like a sand castle.

And to achieve their goals the Chinese need to appeal for exports, since their country is punished by pests and disasters and by a climate not so good for agriculture. On the other hand, Brazil, the largest food power in the world, responsible for supplying food to more than 1.2 BILLION inhabitants all over the planet, using less than 50% of its agricultural capacity, boasts excess water, mineral resources, etc., thus becoming the holder of an absolute monopoly and difficult to overthrow in the production of grains and minerals. Since its country is located in an extremely blessed region, without catastrophes and with a lot of sun and rain, propitious for agriculture, being able to produce several harvests in the same year, something that not even the USA was able to approach, Brazil is a paradise for agribusiness. Besides being the richest country in the world in natural resources such as drinking water, minerals, etc. for this reason this great and rich nation has always been and now more than ever continues to be coveted by the great global powers (European, Chinese, North American, etc.).

 

[Ryansinbela]

Isn't that a trade like mechanic

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

By sheer volume, Food was the greatest Trade Good throughout most of history - certainly until at least the Industrial Era. And many states made a Very Good Thing out of being able to supply food to neighbors: Egypt to Rome, the Greek City State colonies on the Black Sea coast to Athens, the Dried Cod for meatless Christian Fridays that was a major source of income for the Hanseatic League.

But to add Food Resources like Wheat, Rice, Bananas, etc as potential Trade Goods isn't enough. The entire Trade System in Civ VI is bonkers because you have two systems: Resources being traded specifically between Civs only via diplomatic interchanges, but being traded over virtually any distance and requiring no trade routes, and Trade Routes that are very limited in length and number but only trade 'generalized' resources (Production, Food, Gold, Religion, etc). Those two, IMHO, have to be reconciled and the Trade System made into a single system with the same rules for all Resources and Trades, which will then allow Bonus/Food Resources to enter the Trade System the way they should.

 

[Duque de Ferro]

By sheer volume, Food was the greatest Trade Good throughout most of history - certainly until at least the Industrial Era. And many states made a Very Good Thing out of being able to supply food to neighbors: Egypt to Rome, the Greek City State colonies on the Black Sea coast to Athens, the Dried Cod for meatless Christian Fridays that was a major source of income for the Hanseatic League.

But to add Food Resources like Wheat, Rice, Bananas, etc as potential Trade Goods isn't enough. The entire Trade System in Civ VI is bonkers because you have two systems: Resources being traded specifically between Civs only via diplomatic interchanges, but being traded over virtually any distance and requiring no trade routes, and Trade Routes that are very limited in length and number but only trade 'generalized' resources (Production, Food, Gold, Religion, etc). Those two, IMHO, have to be reconciled and the Trade System made into a single system with the same rules for all Resources and Trades, which will then allow Bonus/Food Resources to enter the Trade System the way they should.

I fully agree!

 

[criZp]

By sheer volume, Food was the greatest Trade Good throughout most of history - certainly until at least the Industrial Era. And many states made a Very Good Thing out of being able to supply food to neighbors: Egypt to Rome, the Greek City State colonies on the Black Sea coast to Athens, the Dried Cod for meatless Christian Fridays that was a major source of income for the Hanseatic League.

But to add Food Resources like Wheat, Rice, Bananas, etc as potential Trade Goods isn't enough. The entire Trade System in Civ VI is bonkers because you have two systems: Resources being traded specifically between Civs only via diplomatic interchanges, but being traded over virtually any distance and requiring no trade routes, and Trade Routes that are very limited in length and number but only trade 'generalized' resources (Production, Food, Gold, Religion, etc). Those two, IMHO, have to be reconciled and the Trade System made into a single system with the same rules for all Resources and Trades, which will then allow Bonus/Food Resources to enter the Trade System the way they should.

Exactly. Having trade routes be separate from diplomatic trade made sense in civ 5 as it was an expansion pack system. In civ 6 they are both base game systems, so it makes no sense that they are completely independent of each other.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Exactly. Having trade routes be separate from diplomatic trade made sense in civ 5 as it was an expansion pack system. In civ 6 they are both base game systems, so it makes no sense that they are completely independent of each other.

It all hangs together. I also think the Resource system needs some Love - like with a hammer to smash it up and rebuild it completely. Remove the artificial categories of Resources as Bonus, Strategic and Luxury/Amenity, and have the use of the Resource depend on Technology and Need. Just for instances:
Wheat (or Korn, which would cover Barley, Wheat, Millet, Rye, Oats - all the 'grass grains') is a basic Food, one of the earliest domesticated plants, but it is also required to get Warhorses - horses 15 hands tall and larger to carry heavy armored cavalry and haul heavy chariots and heavy artillery. So, it is both a Food Resource and a Strategic Resource in game terms.
Cotton is an early fiber used for textiles like clothing. But it was also used for fishing nets and traps, so it adds a Bonus to Fishing Boats, and it is a basic component for Smokeless Powder - cordite and all of its cousins, and so a requirement for virtually all modern weapons from rifles to artillery to solid-fuel rockets.
Copper was an early Production enhancer (copper tools like blades and hammers and axes) but also the major component by volume of Bronze, and also required for efficient wiring in Everything Electrical from the Industrial Era onwards.

In short, almost every Resource can change 'categories' depending on the technological level and requirements of the Civ - and change its value as a trade good depending on the technological level and requirements of your trading partner(s). That should be in the game - among other things, it would keep the entire Resource and Trade System dynamic throughout the game instead of the static system we have now, where some Strategic Resources lose most of their value later in the game, and the bonuses from Bonus Resources become less valuable relative to other elements of the game as the cities grow larger and Improvements, Buildings, Civics, and other factors become more important for Production, Gold, Science, etc.
Given that IRL the volume and economic value of Trade in all commodities has increased by orders of magnitude ever since the early Industrial Era, that is completely Backwards. Changing it would go some ways towards reducing some of the Late Game Doldrums in which 'one more turn' becomes a drudgery instead of Fun.

 

[criZp]

I think it would not be hard to replace food, production and gold yields with resources. Citizens could require calories instead of food, and each food resource would have a given number of calories per ton. This system would be equally simple, but less abstract, and you could do more with it, like allow processing of different types of food for improved nutrition or to make them easier to store/trade, and to have low/high quality food that could affect the growth rate. Production could be replaced by manpower * efficiency, where manpower would be the amount of workers the city has and efficiency would depend on available infrastructure and power sources in the city, like how factories and electricity and aqueducts/dams increase production in the current system. Mines/quarries/lumber mills would only provide resources, and would thus function as a second determinant of production speed.

 

[Ryansinbela]

Lakely had a good food concept

 

[Phrozen]

Food should be much more important if not the most important resource on the map. The vast majority of human work after settling down to farm was the production, preservation, and storage of food.

 

[Duque de Ferro]

Food should be much more important if not the most important resource on the map. The vast majority of human work after settling down to farm was the production, preservation, and storage of food.

China today has taught us the importance of food security, if you are not a self-sufficient nation, you need to make countless political moves to extract food from weaker nations. Without food any regime collapses because the people revolt by hunger. Hunger throughout history has been the cause of great revolts like in France and Russia. So I believe this should be better represented in the game.

In other words, food should be a more strategic resource and its absence should generate revolts and riots in its troops and cities. A city that is not well supplied with food, that is, that does not have enough food resources should somehow receive enough food to supply its population and the part of the population that is not receiving enough food can revolt by turning into rebel troops.

To solve the problem, trade routes from cities that are major producers of grain, livestock, and fish must be linked to cities with food deficits before the revolt occurs. Then the player may have time to try to solve the problem.

If the revolutionaries manage to take the city then the period of purges begins in which these revolutionaries will eliminate resistance to their revolutionary movement, the purges will be represented by the loss of some points of population per turn. During the purges the revolutionaries will be weaker and the city's defenses will be reduced, but once they succeed in completing the purges in the city they establish in it a new government which will be interpreted as a new civilization which can display a black banner with skull and cross bones or a totally red flag with hammer and sickle.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

China today has taught us the importance of food security, if you are not a self-sufficient nation, you need to make countless political moves to extract food from weaker nations. Without food any regime collapses because the people revolt by hunger. Hunger throughout history has been the cause of great revolts like in France and Russia. So I believe this should be better represented in the game.

In other words, food should be a more strategic resource and its absence should generate revolts and riots in its troops and cities. A city that is not well supplied with food, that is, that does not have enough food resources should somehow receive enough food to supply its population and the part of the population that is not receiving enough food can revolt by turning into rebel troops.

To solve the problem, trade routes from cities that are major producers of grain, livestock, and fish must be linked to cities with food deficits before the revolt occurs. Then the player may have time to try to solve the problem.

If the revolutionaries manage to take the city then the period of purges begins in which these revolutionaries will eliminate resistance to their revolutionary movement, the purges will be represented by the loss of some points of population per turn. During the purges the revolutionaries will be weaker and the city's defenses will be reduced, but once they succeed in completing the purges in the city they establish in it a new government which will be interpreted as a new civilization which can display a black banner with skull and cross bones or a totally red flag with hammer and sickle.

Food Deprivation actually could trigger several different 'events' or sequences of Events.
Historically (and archeologically) there is now considerable evidence that the earliest cities (Ancient Era) using primitive agriculture and herding (animal domestication) to feed themselves were pretty fragile. A couple of years of drought or flood ruining the fields and pastures, and the people's response to Famine seems to have been to Move Out - revert to hunting and gathering and leave the city. Several early urban concentrations were simply abandoned, with no sign of violence or invasion - the people just left, and the primitive state had no means to keep them in place.

Later (historical) responses to Food Shortages were not only unrest, riot and revolt, but also increased susceptibility to disease leading to stagnant or declining population - and after the state wqs weakened, another wave of Emigation by the survivors, abandoning cities with or without violence..

On the other hand, requiring food that cannot be produced locally or by 'traditional' methods also spurred extreme changes in Social, Political and Military policies and even technologies. Athens became a naval power not only to keep the Persians at bay, but also to control the naval trade routes through the Bosporus to the Greek colonies on the northern coast of the Black Sea, which were supplying her with grain after her population outgrew the capacity of the Attic plains. Since rowers in triremes were then one of the mainstays of the defense of the Athenian State and could come from the poorest classes, that also resulted in the Athenian 'extreme' Democracy in which there was no longer any property or wealth requirement to vote - previously you had to be able to afford the Hoplite weapons and armor - no small expense - to vote.
Rome built 1500 ton capacity grain freighters to bring grain from Egypt and North Africa (whose coastal regions were very productive at the time) to Rome to feed the capital - Nobody in Europe or the Middle East built ships that big again until the late 16th century, over 1400 years later!

So, implementing Food as a Trade Resource with all the consequences would add more than just Potential Revolution to the game - it would also allow some really big cities early in the game by using long distance sea-borne Food Trade to feed them, and provide some different Eurekas or bonuses to Social/Civic Policies and Technologies related to Supplying Food. Think about it: Rome had only indifferent direct access to the sea, relatively small amount of good farm/pasture land nearby, and until late in the Empire only mediocre farming/food production technology, yet it reached 1,000,000 population early in the Empire entirely by shipping in Food from across the Mediterranean. We need that option in the game.

 

[Duque de Ferro]

Food Deprivation actually could trigger several different 'events' or sequences of Events.
Historically (and archeologically) there is now considerable evidence that the earliest cities (Ancient Era) using primitive agriculture and herding (animal domestication) to feed themselves were pretty fragile. A couple of years of drought or flood ruining the fields and pastures, and the people's response to Famine seems to have been to Move Out - revert to hunting and gathering and leave the city. Several early urban concentrations were simply abandoned, with no sign of violence or invasion - the people just left, and the primitive state had no means to keep them in place.

Later (historical) responses to Food Shortages were not only unrest, riot and revolt, but also increased susceptibility to disease leading to stagnant or declining population - and after the state wqs weakened, another wave of Emigation by the survivors, abandoning cities with or without violence..

On the other hand, requiring food that cannot be produced locally or by 'traditional' methods also spurred extreme changes in Social, Political and Military policies and even technologies. Athens became a naval power not only to keep the Persians at bay, but also to control the naval trade routes through the Bosporus to the Greek colonies on the northern coast of the Black Sea, which were supplying her with grain after her population outgrew the capacity of the Attic plains. Since rowers in triremes were then one of the mainstays of the defense of the Athenian State and could come from the poorest classes, that also resulted in the Athenian 'extreme' Democracy in which there was no longer any property or wealth requirement to vote - previously you had to be able to afford the Hoplite weapons and armor - no small expense - to vote.
Rome built 1500 ton capacity grain freighters to bring grain from Egypt and North Africa (whose coastal regions were very productive at the time) to Rome to feed the capital - Nobody in Europe or the Middle East built ships that big again until the late 16th century, over 1400 years later!

So, implementing Food as a Trade Resource with all the consequences would add more than just Potential Revolution to the game - it would also allow some really big cities early in the game by using long distance sea-borne Food Trade to feed them, and provide some different Eurekas or bonuses to Social/Civic Policies and Technologies related to Supplying Food. Think about it: Rome had only indifferent direct access to the sea, relatively small amount of good farm/pasture land nearby, and until late in the Empire only mediocre farming/food production technology, yet it reached 1,000,000 population early in the Empire entirely by shipping in Food from across the Mediterranean. We need that option in the game.

If I understand correctly, you not only agree with the proposal but also suggest more things, right?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Sorry, I should have started that whole diatribe off with: Agree!