Inadequate power supply=problems with high end PCs

[Steve2000]

I have a thought that I would love for the PC pros out there to respond to:

Could it be that some people who are having problems with their game even though they have a top of the line CPU, RAM, and Graphics Card are having problems because their PC power supply is inadequate to handle everthing?

I was reading that the NVidia GeForce 6 series (for example) system requirements are a PC with 300+ Watt power supply. I am wondering if some problems people are having could be due to this. They had a older graphics card in their machine - then upgraded their card to one like the Nvidia 6 series (or better) and now they are putting so much strain on their power needs that everything isn't running as smoothly. Possible? There are lots of people who probably are running PCs with cheap power supplies.

Next question: I am running an old GeForce MX440 and want to upgrade to something better - but my computer only has a 230 Watt power supply. Any recommendations on a power supply upgrade from someone who has done it? Or alternatively is this total BS and do I not need to upgrade the power supply? The rest of my computer is in top shape - 1 GB of Ram and a P4 2.8 GHz CPU.

 

[Rodatam]

yes with my pc (on my sign)
well defraged, paging file defraged, mft optimized, registry optimized, services optimized (only the essential)
latest drivers (all but the video drivers came from the asrock website, to ensure stability and compatibility)

but.... so...so...sound... stu...stu...stuttering....

i cant take it anymore


ps: my PS is an seventeam with real 420w

rock solid voltages, and low temps

 

[Sorceresss]

my computer only has a 230 Watt power supply.

One does not have to be an expert to know that 230 is way too low.

The Holiday issue of "PC Gamer" recently showed how to build a new system with a...600.

 

[IroquoisPlisken]

How do I find out what my power supply is?

 

[Rodatam]

take a look at it..... just open the case and see
download MOTHERBOARD MONITOR and take a look at your voltages while you are playing....
if they fall 5% from the defaults (3.3, 5 and 12) you have a problem with your PS, and its causing the problems in the game

 

[DiscomBob]

yes with my pc (on my sign)
well defraged, paging file defraged, mft optimized, registry optimized, services optimized (only the essential)
latest drivers (all but the video drivers came from the asrock website, to ensure stability and compatibility)

but.... so...so...sound... stu...stu...stuttering....

i cant take it anymore


ps: my PS is an seventeam with real 420w

rock solid voltages, and low temps

Is it just the wonder movies stuttering? I used to have smooth movies, but they started stuttering (sound and graphics) somewhere along the way... I think maybe due to repeated driver changes, or else some sort of progressive corruption of a game file???

I solved this problem by re-installing the game (plus patch and Blue Marble), which doesn't really take that long to do - probably about as long as loading a saved game!

Incidently, I installed on a different partition, and haven't done any subsequent driver changes. Old savegames with stuttering movies are now smooth. Late game is still laggy on a huge map (trying to work out if the GPU, RAM or CPU is the limiting factor here...), and in-game music is sometimes jumpy when there's a lot going on, but no movie stuttering, no crashes/freezes, etc.

 

[Nightfang]

I think most of the people with problems have problems with bad RAM, and don't know it.

 

[Rodatam]

well i did every prime and memtest....
for hours, rock solid

 

[Nightfang]

well i did every prime and memtest....
for hours, rock solid

At least you know it isn't that!

 

[Rodatam]

sure thing, i was thinking about my soundcard drivers
but where i can find them?

i downloaded the ones at the mobo website (asrock website for my mobo)
dunno if its the last, i think its outdated

some places say "cmedia ac 97"
others the sound chipset "sis 7012"

but this drivers are way to small, i mean, the one at the mobo website is 20mb and this ones 6-7...

and i dunno the right version

its quite confusing.... some mobo makers do some modifications....

 

[gibbie99]

I also wonder about the PSU. In fact, on black friday I got a 500W PSU. The game still crashes *alot*, but it depends on the game. All of my games crash, every single one, but usually it's once per hour. My current PSU is an Antec 350W. I had, at one time, 3X hard disks 1X DVD burner, Athlon 64, GeForce 6 card. I unplugged 2 of the hard disks, and reinstalled the system. Still having some issues. It's only games that crash though. I really don't know the problem, maybe it's bad RAM, maybe it's something else. I have all top end components, with the exception of audio, which is built-in (AC 97). But I was thinking, if the PSU is inadequate, then the system wouldn't boot. If it had more serious issues, the PC would randomly reboot. Maybe the house voltage is flakey and out of spec.

 

[oldStatesman]

If it only happens when Civ4 is run, and not with any other programs, more than likely it is something wrong with Civ4. Lots of work being done in this thread lends much weight to the hypothesis that Civ4 has memory issues...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137706

If the crashes are occuring with other apps as well as Civ4, high end apps especially, then it could be a phsical issues such as overheating, insufficient power, bad RAM, etc. But if only Civ4 is causing the issue, this is unlikely.

It is highly improbable that so many are suffering from the same symptoms, and all have bad RAM, or Bad power, etc.

Thanks for bringing up the power supply issue though, it is something to look out for and check. For those who want a program that diagnose this and other issues, try SiSandra - I believe the website is jaggededge.com...but do a gogle search for it or for other software out there that does this - a lot is free or shareware.

 

[EoE]

When I upgraded to my present 6800 GT card, I also went from a 280 W power supply to a 580 W with silent cooling. Changing the PSU is relatively easy.

So I got plenty of juice and I've tested my RAM with Memtest etc. Everything is fine and dandy, except that Civ 4 won't run.

Of course some of the reported crashes are probably due to user problems with their systems, but there is no doubt in my mind that the game itself has serious stability issues as well.

rgds/EoE

 

[Steve2000]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. So maybe I am barking up the wrong tree for other peoples' problems - but it still sounds like I should get a new power supply for my PC.

When I upgraded to my present 6800 GT card, I also went from a 280 W power supply to a 580 W with silent cooling. Changing the PSU is relatively easy.rgds/EoE

It seems easy in looking at it - just unscrew the 4 screws at the back of the power supply and screw in the new one. What I am worried about is does it matter which power supply I get. Will any high wattage PSU do the trick? I have been doing so searching on sites like newegg.com and tigerdirect.com and the power supplies all seem to be pretty much the same - any suggestions? I have an Intel Motherboard made in about 2003 running a P4 2.8Ghz, a DVDROM/CD burner combo, just 1 HD, and planning on upgrading to a 6600 or 6800 GT card. How much power do I need beyond 300W reccomended and is there anything else I should be looking for? I live in the USA - so is there any concern on getting a PSU that will be rated for the wrong voltage - or do they all pretty much have a switch for Euro vs. USA?

 

[gunnergoz]

You can never go wrong with a bigger, better power supply. For one thing, it lets you hook up additional case fans. I run 3 auxiliary fans in addition to the ones that came with the PS, the CPU and the video card. I also run an external desktop mini fan over the case and the external USB HD, which also tends to run hot without it. If I don't do this, in the California summers the system will crash due to overheating. I'm running a 450 watt power supply since it has to power 2 HD's (RAID 0 array), a DVD drive and a CD burner just to start with.
And yes, Civ 4 stil crashes; but only when I scroll accross large end-game maps. So there has been progress. I expect the next patch will just about get it right for my particular problems. I sure hope they can address the other issues that people are having (Radeon cards, etc) as well.

 

[EoE]

Thanks for all the helpful replies. So maybe I am barking up the wrong tree for other peoples' problems - but it still sounds like I should get a new power supply for my PC.



It seems easy in looking at it - just unscrew the 4 screws at the back of the power supply and screw in the new one. What I am worried about is does it matter which power supply I get. Will any high wattage PSU do the trick? I have been doing so searching on sites like newegg.com and tigerdirect.com and the power supplies all seem to be pretty much the same - any suggestions? I have an Intel Motherboard made in about 2003 running a P4 2.8Ghz, a DVDROM/CD burner combo, just 1 HD, and planning on upgrading to a 6600 or 6800 GT card. How much power do I need beyond 300W reccomended and is there anything else I should be looking for? I live in the USA - so is there any concern on getting a PSU that will be rated for the wrong voltage - or do they all pretty much have a switch for Euro vs. USA?

Sorry, I don't know what PSU would be the cheapest and best in the US, I could tell you what to get in Denmark though . But I'd look for something in the 480-500 W range and for a silent fan.

There's a bit more to it then just unscrewing the old one and put the new one in. You also have to reconnect the power cables to your drives, mainboard, sound and graphics card. As long as you're careful about static electricity it's no big deal.

rgds/EoE

 

[JensG]

My power supply is 500W, and can sypply 28 amps on the 12V, which should be plenty.
Everything I can think of is updated.

My computer is rock stable with every other program I use.
Only Civ4 is not stable.

Jens

 

[Conroe]

I have a thought that I would love for the PC pros out there to respond to:

Well, I'm not a pro, but I do have an opinion ...

Could it be that some people who are having problems with their game even though they have a top of the line CPU, RAM, and Graphics Card are having problems because their PC power supply is inadequate to handle everthing?

Most definitely. Any 3D game will drive the CPU and video to peak performance. At these levels, more power will be required from the PSU. If it isn't available, then a crash is inevitable.

I was reading that the NVidia GeForce 6 series (for example) system requirements are a PC with 300+ Watt power supply. I am wondering if some problems people are having could be due to this. They had a older graphics card in their machine - then upgraded their card to one like the Nvidia 6 series (or better) and now they are putting so much strain on their power needs that everything isn't running as smoothly. Possible? There are lots of people who probably are running PCs with cheap power supplies.

Next question: I am running an old GeForce MX440 and want to upgrade to something better - but my computer only has a 230 Watt power supply. Any recommendations on a power supply upgrade from someone who has done it? Or alternatively is this total BS and do I not need to upgrade the power supply? The rest of my computer is in top shape - 1 GB of Ram and a P4 2.8 GHz CPU.

A 230W PSU probably won't cut it. But, realize that the wattage is not the only important number you need to be concerned with. You need to look at the amps available on the individual rails, particularly the +12V rail. Most PSU's provide enough juice on the +3.3V and +5V rail, but many will skimp on the +12V rail. This is especially true of the generic PSU manufacturers. Do not consider any power supply that provides less than 20A on the +12V rail. A high quality 350W PSU can actually outperform a generic 500W, because of the amps available on the rails.

 

[oldStatesman]

A 230W PSU probably won't cut it. But, realize that the wattage is not the only important number you need to be concerned with. You need to look at the amps available on the individual rails, particularly the +12V rail. Most PSU's provide enough juice on the +3.3V and +5V rail, but many will skimp on the +12V rail. This is especially true of the generic PSU manufacturers. Do not consider any power supply that provides less than 20A on the +12V rail. A high quality 350W PSU can actually outperform a generic 500W, because of the amps available on the rails.

Absolutely correct. The wattage is secondary to the amperage, especially the +12V. Great points - you beat me to it.

Don't skimp on a power supply ...spend the extra money and get a good one if you plan on using your pc for high end apps. In the long run, the cost is less, as it will last longer, give less problems since it wil give a 'cleaner' current, and also it will help prolong the life of your other componemts.

 

[Steve2000]

You need to look at the amps available on the individual rails, particularly the +12V rail. Most PSU's provide enough juice on the +3.3V and +5V rail, but many will skimp on the +12V rail. This is especially true of the generic PSU manufacturers. Do not consider any power supply that provides less than 20A on the +12V rail. A high quality 350W PSU can actually outperform a generic 500W, because of the amps available on the rails.

I see lots of manufacturers hyping dual 12V rails - is this worth it? It seems to me that two 12V rails that each only have 15-18amps wouldn't be as good as one 12V rail at 28-35amps. Thoughts? Opinions?

Also - some PSUs put a fan on the top of the unit. Does there need to be much space between the fan and the top of the case for the fan to be effective? Looking inside my case it doesn't seem like there is much space up there - would I be better off with fans just on the back or sides?