Internal trade yields absurd but helpful?!

[AllroundWinner]

Hello, I'm a newbie in CivFanaticsForums although I have been reading threads for quite a long time.

I searched around for a thread that explains the internal trade yields calculations but as far as I know, I don't think there is one.
(If anyone knows a thread explaining them, please kindly post a reply for novices like me and for that I would be quite grateful.)

So what I'd like to share is a strategy concerning internal trade routes.

I found that when you build a trade depot(the Fall update has changed the Autoplant quest, trade route per city limit is 2 except for Freeland, and has forbidden purchasing of trade depots) in your newfound city and turn up a trade convoy/vessel to link it up to the other cities, it seems that the most prestigious city gets the biggest food and production bonus and the other cities that don't have a big difference with the new one get less. Same with gold and science yields in international trade routes.

Why the more meagre and impoverished city are denied the bonuses and the affluent cites receive them instead I have no idea.

So i decided to build an outpost/found a new city every time a small new city grew up to become a middling city and yield far less food/production bonuses than when it was young. And of course all my other cities had trade routes sent to the newest city for the best yields.

In conclusion, my capital always had two internal trade routes to the newest 2, while others had one to the newest and the second the second newest or outwards, depending on the yields. The newfound city would always have station trade routes that would always without doubt provide the vital food, production it needed(Sometimes you have bad luck and no food/production stations are available.).

In this way, my capital became a powerhouse for wonders, units and soldiers while keeping on a constant stream of expansion and good health(I practically always go down prosperity and industry trees for virtues, and I love prosperity's tier 2 synergy bonus of 1 health per city) while my other cities grew at a very fast rate with plenty of production and growth.

I should not have been the only one to have discovered this phenomena and utilized it which is why I would like you guys to suggest your more better strategies, if you have them. At the moment I need just a bit more guidance to go for Apollo and I am desperate for a tip compatible with my own strategy.

 

[Xenotitan]

I don't think the exact formula for internal trade routes is known. What is known is that the city with the highest food surplus (base food - food eaten) receives the most food from the route, and the city with the most production receives the most production from the route. A larger difference between the two cities provides a larger yield, but there's diminishing returns on how much yield you get for the difference.

 

[Gort]

Yeah, I actually think someone working on the patch screwed up and reversed the yields on internal trade routes.

Half the point of having a trade route system is to allow you to get new cities off to a quick start, and you can't do this with the current system.

It's telling that external trade routes work in the opposite manner, with the more productive city getting less from the deal than the less productive one.

 

[Mutineer]

Actually new trade routes work correctly. I really like new trade routes way. Now boost new cities with stations ( that limit your expansion a bit which is a good thin). Boost big specialized cities with trade routes. Boost your sci by external routes from new cities ( choose, improve relationships and boost science with external or use biggest boost from internal). Now there are mindful choices and strategies.

 

[erkanus]

This change of trade route yields is a mere change of the rules of the game. this does not mean it is absurd. they are just different and a little bir strange comparing with the previous ones.

Think about a game like chess. Why the bishops moves diagonnaly? Why the knight has L shaped movement? these are just rules of the games made by someone

You set the rules and play along them. If they changed dramatically, then we have to adapt to the new set of rules

 

[Gort]

Think about a game like chess. Why the bishops moves diagonnaly? Why the knight has L shaped movement? these are just rules of the games made by someone

You set the rules and play along them. If they changed dramatically, then we have to adapt to the new set of rules

It would be better if we had something like, "We changed internal trade routes so they work like this BECAUSE..."

At least then we would know if they had made mistakes and what they wanted to achieve with the change.

 

[Browd]

I think you re asking for a standard for patch notes that no one in the industry complies with.

 

[erkanus]

It would be better if we had something like, "We changed internal trade routes so they work like this BECAUSE..."

At least then we would know if they had made mistakes and what they wanted to achieve with the change.

That would be very nice indeed

 

[Gort]

I think you re asking for a standard for patch notes that no one in the industry complies with.

Doesn't necessarily have to be patch notes. Could be some kind of community manager who engages in discussion regarding game mechanics, or posts or blogs from game designers.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

They likely reduced the yield new cities get because before you could focus all routes on that city and suddenly your newest city becomes your most productive city. Once when I was looking for a high production city to build a wonder, sorting the economy screen by production, and the newest cities was the best. It's weird to have the least developed city be the most productive. At least this way that big trade route production bonus is spread around instead of all in one city.

 

[erkanus]

They likely reduced the yield new cities get because before you could focus all routes on that city and suddenly your newest city becomes your most productive city. Once when I was looking for a high production city to build a wonder, sorting the economy screen by production, and the newest cities was the best. It's weird to have the least developed city be the most productive. At least this way that big trade route production bonus is spread around instead of all in one city.

Reducing the yields is one thing and probably everyone will agree. but changing the yield direction from the smaller cities to the bigger one is something needs clarification. In addition, concentrating trade routes to one city to have a production giant is still possible but not in a small new city instead in the biggest ones.

 

[Ryika]

Imho small cities should gain more from trade, both in Hammers as well as Food, but they should never be able to gain more than twice (or whatever random modifier feels balanced) of what the bigger city gets - and the total number should be dependent on the difference, so both, a very small city as well as a very large Capital would benefit the total amount gained by the smaller city. Helps both, the gameplay

That way you could still "boost" your newer cities without making them stronger than your actual cities - and city development of your "central cities" is encouraged even more, because your status of your "best" cities really actively helps your "newest" cities, instead of having your "newest" cities just conjure food out of nowhere. And from the "Does that match with reality?"-Perspective it helps, too: New cities are "fed" to help them develop their infrastructure so their yields can be shared with the empire. Just like many cities were founded in times before the population boom.

Stations would then be the main target of big cities -> The 50/50 of having a food-station around is no longer so much of a problem, it would allow for more stations to be useful in different situations and they could make stations actually work with the %-modifiers available in lategame powerhouses, helping them stay useful at that time.

Also, a limit to the total amount of internal trade routes that can be sent to a specific city might be something worth thinking about.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Also, a limit to the total amount of internal trade routes that can be sent to a specific city might be something worth thinking about.

In that case you could just go back to the CIV5 model of limited trade routes per empire.
...and my mouse hand would rejoice.

 

[Ryika]

In that case you could just go back to the CIV5 model of limited trade routes per empire.

Mhh... why? The idea for that sentence was to "force" wide empires to have more than a single "trade hub", not to make trading less important. ^^

 

[Zenstrive]

You know, with this new ssytem, big cities are forced to go internal trade routes to boost their productions and food. That makes sense because in big cities the buildings left are the big ones and to grow bigger they need food.
The small cities can be the science and money gatherers. With money, the small cities can be boosted up fast with buying buildings. The science is useful overall. The small cities can also be boosted in terms of cultures and productions by trading with select stations.

It's maybe non-intuitive, but it's useful and non game-breaking!

 

[Galatian]

So how do best set up trade routes now after the patch? I used to always send a trade route back to my capital in newly found cities and one route to a foreign city for science. What is the best way now?

 

[FreedomFighter]

You know, with this new ssytem, big cities are forced to go internal trade routes to boost their productions and food. That makes sense because in big cities the buildings left are the big ones and to grow bigger they need food.
The small cities can be the science and money gatherers. With money, the small cities can be boosted up fast with buying buildings. The science is useful overall. The small cities can also be boosted in terms of cultures and productions by trading with select stations.

It's maybe non-intuitive, but it's useful and non game-breaking!

I just don't get how my new born city with barely food production can supply 10 foods for capital. . .

 

[Minor Annoyance]

So how do best set up trade routes now after the patch? I used to always send a trade route back to my capital in newly found cities and one route to a foreign city for science. What is the best way now?

Not all foreign routes are good for you now. Your biggest cities would be giving away more than they get in energy and science, so those ones should be internal. Small cities should go external if there are good routes, or send to stations that give food or production. You could still send from New cities to your capital, but with good external routes often being hard to come by you should probably take them when you can.

 

[Zenstrive]

I just don't get how my new born city with barely food production can supply 10 foods for capital. . .

Let's just imagine that the tiles outside the small cities not yet worked on is somehow worked on by the larger cities when connected with trade routes

 

[FreedomFighter]

Let's just imagine that the tiles outside the small cities not yet worked on is somehow worked on by the larger cities when connected with trade routes

Imagine the citizen in new city face when they saw caravan of cargo truck from Capital, instead of coming to help them, they come to take their resource.

I didn't bother try to solve the puzzle of trading yield from internal city. I keep it simple. Is this city need more population boost? If yes, then find the route that will yield highest food for it.