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Is all hope lost?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by necrosmith, Dec 16, 2003.

  1. necrosmith

    necrosmith Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    167
    I'm the Aztecs in this game, and it seems things are turning badly for me. I've been at war for years against the Babylonians to my South and have been devoting all my resources to that front when the Persians to my West and North declared war and are now streaming into my nation. Anybody have any hints on how to turn this thing around, or am I just hosed?


    Here is the url for the saved game:

    http://home.comcast.net/~hstalica/save.zip

    Forgot to mention, this is Regent level, PTW, 1.21f.
     
  2. Lopex

    Lopex Why not?

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
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    163
    Location:
    Holland
    lol, sometimes just about everything goes wrong.
     
  3. NobleLeader

    NobleLeader Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Messages:
    65
    Location:
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Forget about and start a new game...

    Hey Lopex, did they have Ice cream on ancient Rome ?
    :)
     
  4. Zyrexius

    Zyrexius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2003
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    Baton Rouge
    You know, that sort of stuff happens all too often for me. Only one time did I stick it out and come out on top. Of course, I only had one city left when they decided to leave me alone, but in my eyes, that was a victory.
     
  5. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    If you still remember, please post all the settings for this game (map size, land mass, victory conditions enabled, etc) . I may give it a try in a couple weeks when I finish my current game.
    Edit:

    Let me try to answer your question:

    This game is in trouble. I am not sure if it can be saved.

    To make an attempt, start as follows:

    1) Turn on the governor for managing citizen moods for all cities. You need to end the disorder in all your cities as soon as possible. I also recommend turning governor on emphasizing food and production.

    2) You have steam power but few railroads. All your workers are stuck in that one city in the south. You need those workers at home, and it is unlikely they will make it back walking, plus that will take several turns. Plus you need all those musketmen for defense. Pick the weakest civ and give them that city (make sure they are not at war with Persia or Babylon). All of you units will then appear in the capital. You might even consider the same tactic on the other city down there and get those cavalry home.

    3) Drag someone else into the war.

    4) Use the workers to railroad toward the north border. Take the great leader and some musketman to the north border town. Use GL to build army and load it with musketman. Any extra units head south.

    There is more to do but I am out of time for now...
     
  6. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    I have attempted to play this game to see what I can do with it. Unfortunately this game has been modded, and it is causing me problems.

    It has units named "Cruiser" and "M48". Is there a standard modpack that has these units? Every time the AI tries to build one of these it crashes. I was able to mod some .txt file to make a cruiser like an AEGIS Cruiser, so it does not crash but there is no graphic for it on the build list.

    I have yet to customize a game so I know nothing about this.

    Also the game has fascism and feudalism. I am wondering how you might get those on PTW? I have a lot of war weariness, probably due to prolonged war before I got the game, or not enough luxuries, so republic is not going to do it. Since these options are available I wonder what they are like?

    I am also wondering what those governements are like, since I do not have conquests.

    Unlike the game I played in my sig, the political situation in this game is really bad and I am not sure if it can be saved, but these game crashes because of the mods are getting to me. I have shelved the game for the moment.

    Are you there necrosmith? Does anyone else know about this?
     
  7. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
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    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    I can’t help it. I am going to try and save this game as well. I overcame all the modded game problems described in the prior post. I have played it far enough to start sharing my progress.

    I was able to pull off a major recovery and victory the last time I tried this, not to mention it was a lot of fun, so here we go again!

    Phase I: Assessment

    Game is being played on PTW version 1.27f. It is a continents game, with 9 of 11 original AI rivals remaining, and human is playing Aztecs. The year is 1635 AD.

    Things do not look good for the Aztecs. Persia is at war with the Aztecs, and they have a lot of units. It is not clear how the war started, other than I know the Persians started it. They are sporting cavalry and riflemen. We have cavalry, but only musketman for defense. The entire Aztec military consists of 65 units:
    16 worker, 6 spearman, 5 pikeman, 1 longbowman, 19 musketman, 5 cavalry, 11 jaguar warriors, 1 medieval infantry, and one great leader. Oh yeah, and 0 cannon – that’s none!

    Aztecs are also at war with Babylon, apparently a long standing war where necrosmith was trying to take them out.

    Aztecs are doing pretty well in tech, as they are researching electricity, and they have techs many of the civs do not have.

    The government situation is bad. Aztecs are in republic, which is not bad, but all the cities are in disorder! My guess is this was caused by a fresh dose of unhappiness from the war.

    All of the AI civs are at least admirers of our culture. This is good as Aztecs won’t have to worry about culture flips, and maybe we’ll even get some cities from flips.

    Infrastructure in the cities is pretty good. Many cities are to the point of building factories.

    The political situation is not great, with two wars going on and unknown past atrocities committed. Persia and Babylon are both furious. Six others are annoyed, and France is polite. At least everyone is not furious.

    The real problem is that Persia is the largest civ and they are right next door. Somehow Aztecs were unable to avoid her wrath and are now subjected to Xerxes’ ambitions to destroy them. Score: Persia 1015, Aztecs 991, France 974, Iroquois 708, Babylon, Scandinavia 553, Germany 515, Russia 498, England 417, America 393, and Zulu (out of game) 288.

    For some reason we don’t have a good world map.



    Phase II: Adjustments and a “comprehensive retreat plan”

    All of the cities are in disorder. Turn on the city governor to manage citizen moods = yes, emphasize food = yes and emphasize production = yes.

    1635 AD:

    There is a great leader. I am tempted to use him to build a wonder, but instead create an army and fill it with musketman. I need to defend against Persia. Xerxes is salty mad!

    We need nationalism. Trade with England to get it. Give industrialization and 658 gold to get it.

    There are 16 workers, but where are they? Most of them are in Ashur, trapped there along with half a dozen or so musketman. There are almost no railroads. This must be corrected so units can be moved quickly to slow or stop the Persian offensive. Not to mention many units need to be upgraded. Jaguar warriors won’t cut it against cavalry. Decide to give Ashur to Vikings. Further, gave Ur to Iroquois to bring home some cavalry there. All of the units in there are automatically transported to the capital where they can be given new orders, and help save and build the core of the Aztec empire.

    Upgrade whatever units I can to rifleman. Gold is now low and these upgrades are expensive. Notice I have an extra coal. Sell it to Iroquois for 10 gpt.

    Neither Persia nor Babylon will acknowledge my envoy. I need to get out of these wars soon.

    Xerxes is unaffected by the change in human player. He takes Tepexepan. The Aztec musketman is just no match for Persia’s volume and quality of units. How much should I expect from one musketman?
     
  8. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

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    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    screenshots - the start:



    Units trapped in Ashur:

     
  9. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    1640 AD:

    There is way too much unhappiness. It is not clear how long the wars went on before I got the game, but some of the prime cities had almost half entertainers. This is not acceptable. Aztecs are religious, so I switch to monarchy. I think the switch was made in 1640 or 1645.

    Set science to 0% and luxury at 10%. Aztecs need all the gold they can get to update these old units to riflemen.

    Workers start building the railroad skeleton, and units are deployed.

    Xerxes and Hammurabi continue to ignore my envoys.

    Getting a better look at Persia’s units. They are strong. They took Teayo and razed it.

    1645 AD:

    Still can’t open dialogue with either enemy. Man this is killing me!

    Persia takes Teptlaoxtoc.

    1650 AD:

    Finally Babylon is ready to talk. Make peace with them and get an MPP. Had to give industrialization. Finally Persia will have more than one target.

    Signed MPP with Lincoln too. It cost some techs, but we can afford to give them for survival. I did make a mistake here though, since Ragnar was willing to sign MPP too for wines, nationalism and steam power. He looked much stronger than America, but once I signed the deal with America he wouldn’t do it. I guess the value of the techs went down after they were sold to America.

    Gave Ixtapaluca to Russians. It was doomed anyway, and gave one more unit to defend the core.

    I have been trying to attack weak units with the remaining cavalry. I also learned that the game must be modded, because riflemen attack at 5, not 4 as the standard game. I put this to work attacking selected stacks of Persian units right next to a city, so the riflemen can stay in the city and defend it.

    1660 AD:

    Tamuin falls to Persia in 1660
    Samarra falls in 1665

    1670 AD:

    Finally the attacks have slowed.
    1675 AD:
    My plan to drag others into the war pays additional dividends as Babylon signs a military alliance with Iroquois against Persia.

    1680 AD:
    Down to 42 units left: 18 worker, 3 musketman (in an army), 12 riflemen, 3 cavalry, 5 jaguar warrior. We are building units, including our first cannon.

    The good news is Aztecs can defend the entire core from land attacks from 5 cities. Persian units are in Aztec territory, but lack the sheer volume to beat the riflemen defending the cities. I am starting to feel like the damage is under control.

    1690-1695 AD:
    I am getting nowhere against these Persians. Aztecs need more units. Decide to switch to war-time mobilization.
    Made a trade with Russia. Gave wines, collected 16 gpt – some badly needed gold!
    11 turns to go on MPP agreements. I will not make peace with Persia before then.

    1700 AD:
    Iroquois have been coming through Aztec territory since they signed MA with Babylon, so I decide to sign ROP with them and let them through. Now they are polite.
    Persian incursion has ended, as no Persian units are in Aztec territory.
    Next it’s time to reconnect the horse resource, build a new city, shore up defenses and prepare for offensive.
    After I completed my turn, Iroquois immediately went into Babylonian territory. I conveniently forget that I had signed an MPP with them, and was forced to declare war on the Iroquois. What a disaster! Iroquois take the capital Tenochtitlan because they have units right next to it and I have it left undefended!
    Capital moves to Tlatelolco.
    This starts the AI dogpile. Persia coaxes Russia and England into military alliances against us.
    I am certainly questioning my tactics, and my desire to play on.

    1705 AD:
    Quickly set up ROP with Vikings, French and Germans. I have to minimize the dogpile effect. Start damage control on Iroquois mistake.

    1710 AD:
    Retake Tenochtitlan. Its back but all the culture buildings are gone. Still have plenty of Iroquois to worry about.
    France declared war on us. Germany and Iroquois sign a trade embargo.
    Vikings declared war on us too, though I don’t recall exactly what turn it was.

    1730 AD:
    Germany demands Theory of Gravity and we give it.
    Slowly working on the Iroquois units. At least no more cities are lost.
    Founded a new city “zerksees” in Aztec territory. There are a few tiles not being worked, so this city will use them.

    1740-1754 AD:
    Babylon and Persia sign MA against us. Why not have one more at the party?
    Up to 47 units, and the last of the Iroquois units are cleared out.
    Russia declares war on America.

    1758 AD:
    Made peace with Persia. It cost 150 gold plus 55 gpt. And it cost Persia a rep hit breaking their MA with Babylon.
    Made peace with Iroquois at no cost
    Made peace with England at cost of 10 gpt.
    Made peace with France at cost of 7 gpt.
    Got out from under the dogpile, with no additional losses!

    1762-1764 AD:
    Persia, England, Russia and Germany declare war on Iroquois.
    Founded city “Impossible” on ruins of Teayo.
    I am now looking squarely at Ixtapaluca, which I had given to Russia. I plan to take it back. I sent a unit there to look and see who is in there. Oops this triggers Russia’s MPP with England and Elizabeth declares war on us again. I am not gaining points for any UN vote, that’s for sure.
    Somewhere here I turned science up to finish electricity.

    1766 AD:
    Took Lagash from Babylon. Serves them right for attacking me. I got a great leader out of it but was unable to get it back to a city in time, as universal suffrage was built by someone else at the end of the turn.
    Catch a lucky break when Tamuin defects from Persia to us.

    1774-1778 AD:
    Made peace with Babylon. Get sanitation, give 20 gold and 15 gpt.
    Sign ROP with Bismarck
    France declares war on Iroquois
    Capture Ashur from Ragnar in 1776. He offered peace before but Aztecs refused. Serves him right for kicking a gift horse in the mouth. Then made peace with him and collect 55 gold and 5 gpt.
    Sign ROP with Persia. It cost 75 gold, and Xerxes is still furious.
    Sign ROP with Iriquois, they stay furious too.
    Sign ROP with Americans, they are now polite.
    Rush build FP in Tamuin with a great leader. Any expansion will be to the south, plus the cities near there have a good lot of corruption already.
    Found city of Build Truck in open space just west of Lagash in 1774.

    1780-1786 AD:
    England and Persia sign a trade embargo against us….didn’t I tell you they were evil?
    Made peace with England and collect 20 gold. Immediately sign ROP with them, they are now up to cautious.
    All the wars are over.
    Switch over to republic. I did not write down the details, but I know gold went up after the switch. I am hoping to stay out of war for a while. I could have chosen feudalism or fascism (not normally available in PTW), but I know what republic can do so I go with that.
    War time mobilization is over as well so I can start on other improvements and start getting regular culture growth.
    Sign ROP with Babylon. Sign ROP with France costing us 40 gold. Trade with Ragnar – get spices for wines and 5 gpt.
    Iroquois and America asked for embargo against Russia. I agree to both, though I can’t recall why as I write this.

    1788 AD:
    Had a problem with the game. It failed when it could not locate a unit named “cruiser” in pediaicons.txt. Realizing I could edit a text file, I went into the file and found all instances of AEGIS cruiser, and created duplicates for cruiser. This is the first time I have modified that file.

    Founded a couple more cities, Football and Queen Barbie (my kids named them) and completed researching electricity.


    Phase 3: Rebuilding

    1790 AD:
    We have lost the tech lead but we can still sell to some of the civs. Trade electricity to England for the corporation, printing press and world map. Trade the corporation to Babylon for espionage and 240 gold. Trade wines and 100 gold to Ragnar for dyes.
    Science set at 50%.

    Most cities are busy building infrastructure- like temple, marketplace, banks, libraries, aqueducts and factories.

    Aztec treasury is up to 2012. Income is 579 per turn. 276 to science, 54 to corruption, 121 to maintenance, 38 to unit costs and 84 to other civs.

    Aztec army has 63 units. 24 workers, 2 knight, 31 riflemen, 4 cavalry, 1 catapult and 1 cannon. In the melee we lost our saltpeter resource so we build catapults and knights to upgrade once we can trade for some saltpeter. I am purposely not building the military up too much right now. I want to save gpt cost and have been trying ROPs and trading to keep the AI dogpile off the Aztecs.

    Apparently the rebuplic has been modded in this game too. At this point 44 units are allowed at no cost, and additional units cost 2 gpt to maintain. Aztecs have 63 units, 19 over the limit, and so it cost 38 per turn to support the military. This is interesting.
    Aztecs have dropped to third in score with 1004. Persia has 1306, France 1075 and Iroquois have 779. The others are lower.

    1796-1814 AD:
    Not much to do except build up infrastructure.
    There are plenty of wars going on but Aztecs are staying out of them. We are building.
    Trade 2000 gold and territory map to England for steel.
    Renew peace treaties with France, Persia and Russia.
    Aztecs up to #3 in population, GNP and mfg. goods. This is promising. Maybe it is because most of the AI are in fascism. Again another game mod since PTW does not come with fascism. I somehow think this must be like communism (inferior to republic) so I figure I have the best government.

    1816-1828 AD:
    Renew ROP with Xerxes for 35 gold.
    Renew ROP with Iroquois, Americans, and England.
    And the building continues…

    1830-1844 AD:
    Complete research on scientific method.
    Xerxes is building Theory of Evolution in Persepolis. Investigate the city in 1832 and find he is a size 6 city, and will take 30+ turns to complete. Switch production in Xochiacalco from military academy to TOE, and complete it 5 turns later. Got atomic theory and electronics.
    Building stock exchanges, cathedrals and factories. Aztecs have 78 units in 1834.
    Vikings are wiped out by Russia in 1836. This is deceiving though since I think France took most of the Viking cities.
    Bought combustion from France for 2290 gold.
    Complete Theory of Evolution in 1840, pass go and collect 2 free techs.
    Trade replaceable parts to Russia for saltpeter, world map and free artistry. Now to upgrade those knights and catapult…
    Trade electronics and 480 gold to England for mass production.
    Trade refining and steel to Babylon for communism. He only has one city left on an island.
    In 1844, Paris will complete Hoover Dam in 12 turns, we will complete it in 11.

    Strategy

    1846 AD:
    Decide that the best way out of this game is by spaceship or the UN. The UN is dicey, particularly since I don’t know what may have happened before 1635 AD. Aztecs will have to build the UN to control the election, or else Joan or Xerxes will be calling elections whenever they can. I have some decent production cities, so I think the spaceship is the way to go. This will be the first time I launch the spaceship in a “space race”. Other times I built the ship I was in command of the game, and the remaining civs were tiny and not close to starting their space programs.

    Domination or conquest do not seem too likely, given Aztecs small size and tiny military, and with a little over 150 turns to go there is not enough time. I also think histograph is out since I won’t have enough time to reverse France’s growing lead in score.

    Phase 4: Diplomacy fails…

    1854-1856 AD:
    Renew ROP with Germany and Iroquois. Renew ROP with Persia paying 60 gold. Persia did not want to renew this but I convinced them. I need peace with them to build infrastructure and go after the spaceship.

    1858 AD:
    I experience a civ first for zerksees – ROP rape. The Persians did it, and took my capital city of Tenochtitlan. I had no units in there, and they took it with a single cavalry. As they did their damage I got a progressively sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach. I worked hard to get Aztecs back on their feet, and now this. Several new cities to the south were razed or captured. The initial assault left some 50+ cavalry, 30+ infantry and 5 tanks in Aztec territory. Sadly the entire Aztec unit count was 70 – 20 workers, 10 cavalry, 36 infantry and 4 artillery.

    I put the game down for a while.



    1860 AD: Damage control.

    While the game was waiting for my enthusiasm to come back, I went to CFC and researched fascism. I found a thread in the mods forum describing a fascism mod for PTW. I made a bold assumption that necrosmith must have applied this mod before setting up this game, and decided to switch to fascism. I couldn’t do it immediately since I was two turns away from finishing Hoover Dam.

    Switch to war-time mobilization again.

    The people were unhappy right away. There must have been a ton of war before I picked up the game or something about republic was modded. I set luxury up to 20% to keep workers busy finishing Hoover Dam. Tech at 50%.

    Decide Xerxes needs some more enemies.
    Signed MA against Persia with Russia, giving atomic theory and mass production
    Signed MA against Persia with Germany giving the corporation, espionage and electricity
    Signed MA against Persia with America giving industrialization, communism and electricity
    I tried the others but had no techs and not enough gold to bring them in.

    Started picking at the stacks. Used the four artillery and cavalry to attack the cavalry stacks. Right now I am just playing for containment. Retook Tenochtitlan. Stupid AI took it with one cavalry. Even the weakened Aztec armed forces could take that back. The bummer is all the religious buildings are gone and other improvements were sold.

    Discovered the capital had moved to Tlatelolco.

    Abandon city named Shirty in the south. It was doomed anyway, and preferred to scrap it rather than let the Persians own it.

    At this point I am ruefully aware that the only way to win this game is to take Xerxes head on. Should the Aztecs survive this betrayal, zerskees has the formidable task of defeating a much stronger and better armed Xerxes. And I will have to complete it before Xerxes can build the UN or the spaceship. zerksees is concerned.

    On this turn Babylon is finally eliminated by the rampaging English. Babylon had been hanging on to a lone city on an island for a long time. At least we outlasted them!
     
  10. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
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    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    An image of doom from Persian betrayal!

     
  11. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    1862-1868 AD:
    Completed Hoover Dam in 1862.
    Switch to fascism in 1864. It has a good effect on the Aztecs. Happiness is way up improving cash and shield flow. Why didn’t I think of this sooner?
    There are just too many Persians! Lost the city of zerksees. Just could not hold them off. Argh!!! It was then occupied by a stack of 10-15 cavalry.
    By 1868 Aztecs are down to 12 cities! The entire new south frontier was lost –only Ashur survives in the south. What was not conquered was abandoned to allow the defenders to move in to core cities. I even abandon the forbidden palace city of Tamuin in 1868. The benefit to this was that the Persians did not take the city and I retained control of most of the tiles around that city.
    When I lost Tula the only Aztec source or rubber was lost. Tula and Build Truck were my last sources of horses, so there can be no more cavalry built.

    1870 AD:
    Finally have the tech to build radar towers, so I built some to help my cities defend.
    Retake city of zerksees from the Persians. Why they did not put some infantry in there I will never know.
    Aztecs have the following units: 23 infantry, 10 cavalry, 7 artillery, 1 army and 17 workers.
    Due to lost resources only ground units that can be built are riflemen, guerilla, and artillery.

    To add more insult the English join the Persians in an MA against us. Can it get worse?

    I have not felt so weak in a civ game in a long time. I guess it’s time to take my own advice and take on those tanks with arty, riflemen and guerillas.

    Note:
    This game is modded. Infantry attack at 8 and defend at 10. Guerilla attack at 7 and defend at 6. Riflemen attack at 5 and defend at 6 – that will make them so much better against tanks!

    1874 AD:
    The city losses seem to have stopped. I start to wonder if I can stop them.
    France and England sign MA against us. They are out to destroy us. Didn’t I tell you they were evil?

    1876 AD:
    My infrastructure has also been taking a beating from 6 or 8 Persian ships shelling the west coast. Since Persian units are still in my territory the workers have to stay away.
    Some AI tries to build modern infantry and it crashes the game. Had to mod the pediaicons.txt file and replay the turn. The unit attacks at 10 and defends at 14.
    England and Germany sign MA vs Persia. What is that crazy Elizabeth up to?

    1880-1886 AD:
    By 1880 only four Persian units remain in Aztec territory.
    Made a trade with Russia to get rubber and flight. Gave 900 gold and electronics.
    Retake Tula, gaining a rubber and horse resource. It is a dangerous place for workers, so I am glad I made the trade with Russia to keep the rubber flowing.
    8 declarations of war were made in MA’s by AI civs on each other in these turns.
    Only one was made against us by France and the Iroquois.
    Aztecs military: 8 cavalry, 27 infantry, 24 artillery, 1 ironclad, 3 guerilla, 1 rifleman, 3 armies. 16 workers are left.
    All this war has created three great leaders - all of which went to the 3 armies which are loaded with infantry for defense.
    Founded New zerksees in 1886 on the oil resource at the south end of Aztec territory. Needed this to go with motorized transportation to build some tanks.

    1894-1904 AD:
    The tide turns.
    Take Akkad back in 1894, Samarra in 1896, Teptlaoxtoc in 1898.
    Take Isandhlwanda in 1904.
    America eliminated by Iroquois in 1900.

    1910 AD:
    Take Build Truck back.
    Made peace with France for 120 gold. Mobilization ends.
    Made peace with Iroquois for 40 gold.
    Keep focus on Xerxes!
    Used a great leader to rush a new forbidden palace at New zerksees.

    1912-1914 AD:
    Great leaders are flowing in. Used three to rush battlefield medicine, pentagon and intelligence agency.
    Founded Coal Town on south edge of territory on a second coal resource, and giving me striking distance to Ellipi.
    Made peace with England, collecting 3 gpt. Not too bad considering I never set foot in their territory.
    At this point Xerxes is willing to give 800 gold for peace. I laugh. Should have thought about this before you started messing with zerksees! The war continues!

    1916 AD:
    Retake Cempoala. It has been handy that most of these cities already had Aztec culture built up in them so there is little risk of them flipping back.
    Tech slider at 80%, luxury at 0%. Fascism is powerful as there are no signs of war weariness yet.
    Aztec military now sporting 112 units: 11 tanks, 35 artillery, 30 infantry, 5 armies, 2 destroyers, 5 fighters, other misc. Not overpowering but enough to do some damage. Been using radar towers, artillery, tanks and cavalry to take the cities back. Also been using artillery to pillage improvements on his side of the border to create kill zones for Persian tanks.

    Aztecs now rate 4th in population, 5th in GNP, 3rd in mfg. goods, 4th in land, 3rd in productivity. This is OK, but still trailing France and Persia who are no doubt 1-2 in these categories. The score is Persia 1667, France 1470 and Aztecs 1062. Aztec score has barely moved since I picked up the game, and Aztecs have slipped to a distant third.

    It starts becoming clear that zerksees will win the war with Persia, but time is a waistin’. I need to find a way to win this game. I also need to prevent the others from controlling the UN vote. Fission is 12 turns from completion.

    1918-1928 AD:
    Took Ellipi. Captured Babylon and found JS Bachs and Sistine Chapel inside. Took Lagash. Founded North Outpost on the northern front. Took Truck Wreck back, captured Bapedi, retook Football and Ur. Ur had the Great Lighthouse. Perhaps I would have taken better care of it the first time I had it had I known!
    In 1922 I did some investigating and found France 15 turns from completing the UN. We will complete fission in 5. Start a palace prebuild for the UN.

    1932 AD:
    Got a great leader and rushed the UN! Ha! zerksees has a little more control on the game.
    Traded fission, 164 gold and 1 gpt to Russia for rocketry. Russia has been our friend for a long time. She is losing gorund to France on the other continent, but what can I do?

    1940 AD:
    Haven’t taken a city in a while. I just can’t make enough units in regular mobilization, so I switch to war-time mobilization again.

    1942 AD:
    Iroquois have been taking Persian cities in the north. I forget when they started against Persia. This has created a 12 tile gap between the conquered cities. This is significant because there is uranium in there. Built a city in there to hook up uranium.
    It is also significant because there are no more Persian cities up there.

    It is amazing how predictable the AI has been. There have been very few surprise attacks after the first one. They keep sending units into my territory in the same places, and keep getting pummeled each time they enter. The stacks are always small enough that they never survive my counter attacks. Artillery rocks!

    It appears as the Aztecs are now back to the same power level they were at before Xerxes started his war on the Aztecs back in the 1630’s. It has taken a long time to restore Aztecs to their old level of power. Now to turn it up a notch!
     
  12. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    1944-1954 AD:
    Take Ixtapaluca back from Persia, take Ergili, Chiconautla, Samaria, Hamadan (had SETI program), Tequixquiac, and Persia’s last source of oil. Each city is netting around 90-100 gold.
    Completed computers. To my surprise, infantry upgrade to modern infantry, not mech. inf. Modern infantry attack at 10 and defend at 14 in this modded game. If I want mech inf I guess I will have to build them from scratch.
    Aztecs now have 150 units.
    Germany is destroyed by France.

    1955-1958 AD:
    Took Tarsus and Tyre. Ur defected to Persia. Bombed it down to size 1 and retook it.
    Persia and England sign MA against us.

    1959-1961 AD:
    Took Impossible from England and Sardis from Persia. I notice Iroquois are furious – not sure why.
    In 1960 Iroquois and England sign MA against us. Iroquois invade and take a couple cities in the north. They will pay for these atrocities!
    Made a strategic decision to make peace with Persia collecting 900 gold.
    Retake the two cities from Iroquois. They are in democracy. Starting war in a democracy against fascism seems like a real bad idea to me.
    Complete space flight. Trade to France for miniaturization, ecology, amphibious war, 4000 gold, world map.
    Took Ulundi from Iroquois.
    Apollo program now under construction. Hmmm. Seems like history being repeated in this game.

    1962-1969 AD:
    Iroquois taking damage. 11 cities razed or captured by Aztec war machine. Iroquois are quite weak really.
    In 1963 used a great leader to rush the Internet.
    In 1965 Persia had 1710, France 1632, Aztecs 1156 and Iroquois 983. Aztecs #1 in approval and GNP, #2 in mfg. goods and land mass. No doubt France is leading. Aztec military has these units: 60 artillery, 16 tanks, 23 infantry, 7 modern infantry, 24 mech. infantry, 2 cavalry, 18 worker, 1 ironclad, 1 transport, 2 destroyer, 1 battleship, 4 fighters, 2 guerilla and 8 armies.

    1970-1979 AD:
    First spaceship component is completed.
    Took 5 more cities from Iroquois.
    In 1972 made peace with England. Trade miniaturization to England for recycling.
    In 1976 complete superconductor. Trade to France for nuclear power, genetics, 600 gold and 60 gpt. Trade it to Persia for 9000 gold. This extra gold allows me to turn science up to 100%.
    Used a great leader to rush exterior casing.
    By the end of this time 6 spaceship components are complete. Persia and England have 0 components complete. I am afraid to plant a spy in France – the last thing I need is war with them right now.
    At the end of this time I switched to mobilization again to get a production bonus for a few turns.

    1980-1983 AD:
    Completed 7th and 8th components.
    Completed satellites, and purchased the laser from France for 9600 gold. What good will that money be to them now?
    Planted spy in France in 1982 – they have 0 components complete. Now I worry they will nuke me to stop the spaceship.
    In 1983, I made peace with Iroquois. They had 4 cities. I collected 3 of them for peace, so they have just one left.

    1986 AD:
    Complete first ICBM.

    1988 AD:
    Completed Robotics, and used prebuilds to complete last two ship pieces. Persia had 2 pieces complete.

    Spaceship victory in 1988! It was nice to win, but I felt a little like I was stealing a victory. Usually I crush the AI as a threat before launching the ship.

    Out of the jaws of defeat a victory has been snatched. Never give up. Never. The AI is weak, and you can beat it. The game is designed for you to win it.

    History will remember me as Montezuma the “fair”.
     
  13. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    A few screenshots for good measure:





    Take a good look at the swings in score on this chart.
    Aztecs almost lost it...

     
  14. necrosmith

    necrosmith Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    167
    Hi there, everybody. My apologies to those of you who have e-mailed me requesting info on the mod. I've been away from my computer for quite awhile.

    Anyhow, for those who are still interested and have a fast-enough connection or a lot of patience, I've made the PTW scenario I played the game available for download. Here are the links to the save and also my scenario mod. This is for PTW 1.27f.

    The scenario is based off the Player1 mod with some extra units thrown in such as a Cruiser unit, Modern Infantry, a couple of riptide's custom tanks. In addition, there are some minor tweaks here and there and I added the Fascism and Feudalism governments.

    The Civilopedia entries should be fully functional and give you the information on the changes.


    http://home.comcast.net/~hstalica/save.zip
    http://home.comcast.net/~hstalica/necrosmith.zip (10 megs)

    Congrats to Zerksees for an amazing come from behind win.
    I've learned a couple of things from his game I didn't know before. One, is that using the governor to manage moods is a huuuuge help. I never thought to do that. Another is giving your city to another civ will return your units to your capital. That would have helped me tons to get those workers and cavalry back.
     
  15. ArmPilot

    ArmPilot Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    Messages:
    148
    Location:
    Western PA; Eastern USA
    I wan to take a swing at this game. What difficulty is the game and what changes do i have to make to have the modded stuff work?
     
  16. ducki

    ducki Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    44
    Wow. That may be the first time I've ever seen anyone actually suggest turning the governor on. Probably due, at least in part, to the level and the time frame. Typically I avoid the governor and manage moods manually - the AI loses so much growth and production by not using the lux slider that it's an advantage I find too valuable to give up.

    I'm not criticizing. Like I said, level and lateness(era) probably make this a workable suggestion. I've just never seen the governor recommended before.
     
  17. necrosmith

    necrosmith Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    167
    Difficulty Level was on Regent. You can download the files in the above post to get it to work. Just unzip them in your scenarios folder.
     
  18. Kaboth

    Kaboth Prince

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    454
    Location:
    Shellharbour, Australia
    Lol Necrosmith's request for help has turned out into some kind of GOTM challenge. I'll have to dig up some losing games for people to have a crack at :)
     
  19. zerksees

    zerksees in remission

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,645
    Location:
    Wadsworth Ohio USA
    Thanks.

    I learned that fascism can really rock when war-mongering is needed.

    With the governor on, if your cities production starts dropping off too much this means there are too many entertainers. If that happens move the luxury slider up or get out of the war.

    For those non-governor believers, I suggest you try setting the governor on to manage citizen moods, emphasize food and production. Write down info from F1 and demographics screen before and after the change and see if there is any improvement. If that's not enough, know I am crushing the AI on deity right now with those exact settings (check out thread in HOF forum).

    The giving away the city trick I learned somewhere on this site. Only the person I learned it from was using it to mass transport their entire army across the ocean after rush building the palace on the enemy continent! This was a little less dramatic but it worked.
     
  20. necrosmith

    necrosmith Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2003
    Messages:
    167
    I've been using the governor a lot in my last few games. Mainly, I've discovered that the games seem to go faster as I have less micro to do. I usually emphasize food, happiness, and commerce.

    Do you have any comments on some of the mods in the scenario?
     

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