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Is it cheating?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Sykes179, May 13, 2018.

  1. Sykes179

    Sykes179 Chieftain

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    New to this forum although I've been playing this game a very, very long time. Since, well, Civ. Or Civ 1 as my kids call it.

    Anyway, I'm on Civ6 R&F now and am winning reasonably consistently on immortal. I will go up to deity and have been thinking on what I will need to do to win at the highest level. A few threads on here re startegy / tips etc suggest things that just don't seem in the spirit. They're not 'natural;' and rely on exploiting game mechanics. For example, this thing about building something with a 100% boost via a policy and then using the boosted overflow from chopping to build something completely different (presumably further boosted with Magnus). Thats probably a tactic rather than a strategy but nevermind.

    I am sure there are others. Is this 'cheating'? Does winning by employing such dubious methods prove satisfying? Or am I too much of a purist?
     
  2. Melchizedek

    Melchizedek Warlord

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    I'm a purist too, and it's why I stay on Immortal, and it's even more why I still like Civ IV better than Civ VI. Some of the crucial mechanics of Civ VI, like timing chops with Magnus and the district discount mechanism, are a little too "just 'cause that's the game" for me and take away from empire building immersion. It's still a fun game, though.
     
  3. Equilin

    Equilin Prince

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    I think i've seen a thread like this before in this Civ6 forum.
    imma just gonna sit down with popcorn then.
     
  4. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Since you're a long time player, let me ask you this: did you use / would you also call cheating the 'prebuilding' of wonders in Civ3? You, know start building something expensive, e. g. palace, then when you get a necessary tech, swap into the real thing - the wonder you are after, and have it done a few turns later. Because if you tried to build it 'from scratch', some AI civ would certainly snatch it from you a couple of turns before you'd build it. Or slavery whipping in Civ4? Or hoarding of Great Scientists in Civ5 to speed run the last eras in the blink of an eye and have your science victory?

    There is always something in Civilization games that helps you create slingshots for yourself to overcome AI bonuses. I don't see it as cheating, rather as a game within a game. I agree that from roleplaying perspective this may seem somewhat 'improper', but for those players who like to plan and calculate and aim for fast finish times, this is an exciting tool to use. And to get all the governor movements and timings right, in tune with research of techs and civics, to see your grand plan coming together can indeed be satisfying.
     
  5. sixty4half

    sixty4half Prince

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    It all depends on if you would rather play Civ as a simulator or as a game. Honestly though, if I'm commissioning bricks for a wall, and, at the end of my project, I find that I my brick factory made a Moderator Action: <SNIP> ton more bricks than I needed because of their extreme efficiency, then why wouldn't I use those bricks for my next project?

    Moderator Action: Please use appropriate language on the forums as we try to maintain a family friendly place. Thanks. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2018
  6. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Warlord

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    I think these are just 'exploits', not cheating. It's fun to find more effective ways to play. In my opinion, 'cheating' refers to the use of some seriously bugs, such as trading your newly created great works (AI will pay every thing for it).
     
  7. kamex

    kamex Emperor

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    The AI never gets smarter above Prince, it just gets more and more handicap bonuses. Therefore the most effective (and some times necessary) way for the human to compete is to exploit the AI's weaknesses, by ripping it off in trade deals and exploiting its terrible combat ability, making it a more level field overall.

    Of course if your playing single player all what matters is your own enjoyment. If you want to feel 'clean' play on Prince and don't use any exploits to make the game feel fair for all, but don't expect it to be challenging. Saying that, I've found those settings make the game more of a sandbox and allows you to role play a lot more which I find fun.

    In conclusion just play with whatever settings or exploits give you the most enjoyment.
     
  8. eleven11

    eleven11 Warlord

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    I was an Immortal player forever just because the Deity AI bonuses were ridiculous. I've moved up to Deity using a single mod - Starting Scout. It's made the early game more palatable simply because I may get a couple CS bonuses and reveal terrain much quicker to understand if I'm under immediate threat from the AI. It helps me plan an informed early game so I'm not just hammering on Archers and Warriors. I may actually be able to chop in a wonder!
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    No, cheating would be breaking the rules like turning on firetuner and giving yourself modern armour... or an extra builder. Cheating is too harsher word.

    When playing within the rules it then becomes a moral/ethical question which I cannot answer for you but I can give you my take which is

    If everyone else thinks it’s cheating but I do not, then I’ll happily use it. The same the other way around, if everyone thinks it’s fine but I think it’s wrong, I will not use it. You really should not judge others by your rules (upbringing and intelligence often cause difference) and you certainly should not judge yourself based on others (too many people beat themselves up based on what other people say Flippantly or troll/bullywise)
    Also winning is a personal thing, I really do not care for winning but I do like efficiency and tricks that will get me there faster.

    The key is to not care what others think of you but care about what you think of your own gameplay. Any other choice and you are fighting yourself and that’s being a muppet.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  10. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    I consider it an exploit as it is unlikely that the mechanism is working as originally intended.

    Unlike sharing achievement saves, using it won't automatically send you to hell.
     
  11. playshogi

    playshogi Emperor

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    Chopping overflow has been a part of the game since Civ4, so I think it is a valid mechanic.
    An example I think is cheating is manipulating the trade screen until suddenly the AI is willing to pay an outrageous sum for a luxury. If that happens, I close the trade screen and reopen it and make the same offer and usually the AI will offer much lower.
     
  12. TrailblazingScot

    TrailblazingScot I was kittenOFchaos

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    Overflow is not the issue, no-one is saying that.

    The issue is policy cards on certain units (e.g. +100% on ancient naval) being used to generate increased overflow to spend on other things.
     
  13. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Objectively not cheating, YMMV otherwise.

    Usually players get lost in the woods talking about "exploits" and such and don't even consistently rate tactics as exploitative based on strength or use cases etc. Players that do this don't know what exploit means, not even on their own terms :p.

    You can not do it to make the game harder, just as you could refuse to build any campuses and still win on deity.
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.

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