Is it possible to win without going pious?

[ckool5000]

Well... It's possible to do all sorts of things... You can manage without a religion, it's just hard.

 

[soarom]

Well, I thought that since I'm going to skip all religious techs I'm gonna get a tech edge. But we'll see... I guess sometimes the shortest road is longer.

 

[xanadux]

I find it interesting that you find it very hard to win without founding a religion.

Above prince level, I always seem to have a much harder time of it when I do try to found a religion. Founding an early religion deals a serious blow to your early game production. BW and each worker tech are that many turns later to come. I've found that skipping the religion and founding my second or third city with lots of forests around to chop the pyramids for representation is a much stronger play (at least for my game style).

 

[gettingfat]

I find it interesting that you find it very hard to win without founding a religion.

Above prince level, I always seem to have a much harder time of it when I do try to found a religion. Founding an early religion deals a serious blow to your early game production. BW and each worker tech are that many turns later to come. I've found that skipping the religion and founding my second or third city with lots of forests around to chop the pyramids for representation is a much stronger play (at least for my game style).

Agree. I ignore early religion even starting with mysticism. The only exception is starting with an oasis.

 

[Cer]

Agree. I ignore early religion even starting with mysticism. The only exception is starting with an oasis.

I'll even ignore early religion if i do have an oasis.

The religious guys will have more gold, thus better technologies, thus better units

The religious guys have to pour some research into religious techs and hammers into missionaries, etc. If you can use that research and production to get writing, libraries, banking, banks, cities with luxuries, etc... you can do just as well.

For non-spiritual leaders, it seems you spend a turn in anarchy to pick a religion and then a turn in anarchy to switch to a civic (like organized religion) that makes the religion worthwhile. 1 turn of anarchy= zillions of lost beakers and hammers.

 

[InvisibleStalke]

I'll even ignore early religion if i do have an oasis.



The religious guys have to pour some research into religious techs and hammers into missionaries, etc. If you can use that research and production to get writing, libraries, banking, banks, cities with luxuries, etc... you can do just as well.

For non-spiritual leaders, it seems you spend a turn in anarchy to pick a religion and then a turn in anarchy to switch to a civic (like organized religion) that makes the religion worthwhile. 1 turn of anarchy= zillions of lost beakers and hammers.

Actually, not quite zillions

Switching to Org religion gives +25% hammers for buildings. Think that might pay back the missing hammers from two turns of anarchy reasonably quickly? And thats quicker libraries, universities, banks etc too. That might catch up the two turns of lost research too.

Pacifism might give you a couple of extra great scientists. Thats Philosophy and half of Education - worth a couple of turns of anarchy? I think so.

Theocracy gets you to the second promotion. CR2 swords/maces instead of CR1. Worth it? I think so - fewer units can do the same job and your expanded empire gets going.

Not to mention allies. Generally I prefer to be on really good terms with some friends who share the same religion and on really bad terms with my enemies. It means I only have to guard one frontier strongly and I have good trading partners. So adopting a religion can really help my diplomatic game. And my religious friends will join in wars for me - religiously neutral non psychopaths usually won't do that. Which makes them stronger friends and helps my war efforts.

Usually I'll end up running a religion up until Free Religion at least. But which religion and whether I bother to start one will depend on the diplomatic situation. I may well run a religion I didn't found and still try and spread missionaries to fuel my holy city.