Is the AI getting free techs ?

[Arizael]

I have returned to this mod great mod after few several years and I did something i do since vanilla CiV - I have increased the tech cost, because i like slower pace and it feels oh so much better to still be in classical when the year count switches to AD.

The tech pace did certainly slowed down - for me that is, the ai is teching like crazy. As progress Byzantium i went Calendar first (wine monopoly) into Ironworking (aggressive Harald and to prevent backstabs). By the time the tech leader enters medieval with 22 techs (at cca 50 BC) I am at 13 techs. Most civs are at 18-20 techs. I can't even keep up with the scrub Harald who is pathetic at everything, yet he still has 15 techs.

The thing is I don't feel like I have been neglecting tech at all. I am progress Byzantium with 6 cities, focusing on production. Build order has been monument -> council -> herbalist(+science from pantheon)-> barracks -> forge.

So I have restarted as tradition Babylon, got isolated start, beelined writing, currently have 3 academies and I am still only tied with the average civs, 3-4 techs consistently behind the tech leader.

Settings:Epic game speed. Immortal difficulty, large Oval. No tech trading, RA on, no ruins, raging barbs.

Mods: Overall tech cost increased from 1.5->1.65. Additionally ancient era techs increased by 15%, classical and medieval by 10%, renaissance by 5%. Enlightenment era mod for VP.

So is it normal that the ai techs like crazy, or am I shooting myself in the foot with the tech cost increases ? Because the only explanation is that the ai is getting tech from some other mechanism ?

 

[dostillevi]

The AI does everything faster than a human possibly could, and it's especially noticeable in the early game. The AI is given "rewards" (bonuses) when it does things, notably when it settles cities.

The net effect of this is to make techs and wonders in the early game very difficult to compete for at higher difficulties, particularly to get both the tech and the policy count needed. In general this makes the game harder in the beginning at a given difficulty, so you might want to try a lower difficulty or check out Milae's difficulty mod.

 

[Arizael]

The AI does everything faster than a human possibly could, and it's especially noticeable in the early game. The AI is given "rewards" (bonuses) when it does things, notably when it settles cities.

The net effect of this is to make techs and wonders in the early game very difficult to compete for at higher difficulties, particularly to get both the tech and the policy count needed. In general this makes the game harder in the beginning at a given difficulty, so you might want to try a lower difficulty or check out Milae's difficulty mod.

Thank you for your reply, I'll. I would just like to add, that i am not new to the mod. I used to play it several time over the years, starting at king and only gradually working up to immortal.

To clarify my question - If I mod the cost of tech up, will the ai bonus get larger (and thus effectively increase ai tech speed vs the player) ?

 

[Milae]

They will still get the same amount of Science so it will technically count as less because the techs cost more with your changes.

 

[Arizael]

They will still get the same amount of Science so it will technically count as less because the techs cost more with your changes.

Thank you for quick answer. This counts for "vanilla" VP, your mod or both ?

 

[Milae]

I was talking for normal VP. With my mod they'd have relatively the same amount of science since their bonus is mostly percentage cost decrease.

 

[Arizael]

Ok time to go back to Emperor i guess. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Stalker0]

Thank you for your reply, I'll. I would just like to add, that i am not new to the mod. I used to play it several time over the years, starting at king and only gradually working up to immortal.

So the trick is while you have been gone the AI has steadily gotten stronger and stronger. so what was immortal a few years ago now is like emperor or even king difficulty.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

So the trick is while you have been gone the AI has steadily gotten stronger and stronger. so what was immortal a few years ago now is like emperor or even king difficulty.

The AI is now "better" than one or two years ago, in general. But the rapid progression in techs in the early game simply cant get explained by better play of the AI.
The boost was very noticable after the change from a flat global bonus to a city based bonus. Instead of getting flat +X science for founding a city, they get now +Y science in every city for founding a city or historic event in general.
An AI civilization which is able to set a 4th, 5th or 6th city relativly fast, maybe cause of good access to luxuries, is getting now much more science for founding this city than in the previous model.
If I remember correctly, founding an early game city can trigger a science bonus about 5-10 turns of a normal science output, or finishes a level 2 tech to 50-80%.

 

[AndreyK]

Not only science, but also culture - playing at immortal I previously seen AI having 1 policy like tradition 1, progress 1, but not anymore. Now AI don't ever have 1 policy, they get 2, so one turn they have no policies, next they have tradition 2 or authority 2.

 

[Rekk]

Not only science, but also culture - playing at immortal I previously seen AI having 1 policy like tradition 1, progress 1, but not anymore. Now AI don't ever have 1 policy, they get 2, so one turn they have no policies, next they have tradition 2 or authority 2.

It doesn't show in the UI when players just open a policy branch. When the player takes their first policy in the tree, the UI then counts both the policy and the opener each as a policy. That is why it goes from 0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6+2, 6+3, 6+4 etc.

 

[AndreyK]

So, when I look at the score, it doesn't show it either? I was pretty sure it wasn't like that before

You can see, just 2 turns back Napoleon had 0 score from policies, now he has 32, also he still has only 1 city.

 

[Rekk]

How much is a single policy worth?

 

[AndreyK]

How much is a single policy worth?

16

 

[azum4roll]

It doesn't show in the UI when players just open a policy branch. When the player takes their first policy in the tree, the UI then counts both the policy and the opener each as a policy. That is why it goes from 0, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6+2, 6+3, 6+4 etc.

That was fixed ages ago.

 

[BiteInTheMark]

That was fixed ages ago.

Yeah, this means, Siam was able to get 2 policies in only 2 turns. Do you think that can be called balanced or fair?

 

[azum4roll]

Yeah, this means, Siam was able to get 2 policies in only 2 turns. Do you think that can be called balanced or fair?

Totally possible with Progress, even as a human.

 

[AndreyK]

Not Siam, I still have 1 policy, it's France and he has 2 authority in 2 turns.
I mean in last 2 months I don't ever see AI with 1 policy they have none and suddenly they get 2, regardless of the tree (tradition, progress or authority).

 

[andersw]

Not Siam, I still have 1 policy, it's France and he has 2 authority in 2 turns.
I mean in last 2 months I don't ever see AI with 1 policy they have none and suddenly they get 2, regardless of the tree (tradition, progress or authority).

Definitely not fair but it is Immortal so ... but yes I really felt the difficulty increase on Emperor too and consider lower the difficulty because ... I just dont get anywhere in wars anymore.