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Is this a bug or just intentional bugging?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - General Discussions' started by Buttercup, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    During my Just For Fun Sid game I was surprised how easily the AI was allowing me to settle my two satellite islands. Korea, in particular, had the Great Lighthouse before I'd even set foot on the two islands and was even floating Triremes around my main island while I was frantically trying to dump as many Settlers as possible into ships. The second island (in the second pic) was vacant for no end of time.

    But the Koreans somehow managed, in both instances, to dump their solitary Settler onto each island right at the exact point I dumped my last, completing Settler onto the island.

    Case 1 - a Korean Archer and a Settler:



    Case 2 - a Korean Longbowman and a Settler:



    The timing was immaculate. They did not land to compete for space, they landed precisely 1 turn away from being the first to settle the last possible location on the island.

    But what really bugs me - and what I feel must be some kind of coding bug, is that, once they have failed to take any island space, why do they not move any further? Why do they get turned to stone?

    The boat that dropped them off can't be that far away, it's only been one turn. There have been hundreds of boat passings since their landing, any one of which could have stopped to pick them up. They could just be disbanded.

    But, no. They have to just stand there like statues. They're not even interested in whether they're inside or outside my cultural barriers or not. They're not even interested in whether the town has any defences or not. They're just... pure irritation.

    If it wasn't Sid level then I'd just kill them. But, as it's Sid, this could result in the very quick loss of all my territories, especially as Korea is the game-leader at this point and I have nothing to barter for warring partners with.

    Or do you think it's intentional?

    If it was intentional and not just a coding bug, what would be the purpose?

    ?
     
  2. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    The AI will not settle in a spot that is adjacent to your borders. In shot 1 we can see no open place to plant a town, so they will sit. Not a bug, they just had sent the pair on a go to long ago. Now after arriving they can no longer found a town.

    They often leave units in such locations forever or a very long time. Bad coding, perhaps. Likely just an over sight.
     
  3. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    I believe the AI has no memory and therefore no multi-turn plans, so there is no concept of "this didn't work, let's reverse this action".

    So each turn, the AI is reborn, learns the world, sees that this is a settler pair, sees there is currently no place to settle on the current landmass, does not know of another land mass with room to settle, does not need to disband to save money, so it stays put. Next turn, rinse and repeat.
     
  4. Everkane

    Everkane Valar Morghulis

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    The AI does have a memory, if it hasn't it wouldn't be an AI at all, in a full expression of the terms, and it probably can learn from the player about the gameplay while the game is running.

    Not that it has a multi turn plan (it has, however, invasion and settling multi turning plan, as everyone knows), but it does learn how to play through the human which is playing with it.

    It's the whole base of the AI afterall.
     
  5. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    The game has no ability to learn from humans as far I can tell. It has no memory of past events, only what is the current state.
     
  6. Everkane

    Everkane Valar Morghulis

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    Yes, it does.

    Of course there is no miracle in this case and the majority of moves is already programmed (like a computer chess game), with action-reaction based on what the AI really "believes" it's going on, but the game can learn, for example, to build fortress in a single-tile if you start doing this very much. That's just an example.

    But I'd agree if you said the AI has a very low range about what it can learn so that's why it's very easy to distract it with silly moves.

    Like I said... otherwise it couldn't be called AI at all.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence
     
  7. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    The AI simply only knows how to drop off units from a boat, but I have never seen the AI load any units back onto a boat.
     
  8. Lord Emsworth

    Lord Emsworth Emperor

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    Except maybe attitude and reputation. But that is fairly minimal.
     
  9. Puppeteer

    Puppeteer Emperor

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    I am convinced the only game state is stored in the save file (else SGs or play-by-email would be impossible), so any "AI" "memory" would have to be stored there, and most of the game file is map, unit and game data.

    I don't think we're playing against actual artificial intelligence; it's just easier for us to say AI than "algorithmic rivals-controller". The game concepts reputation, attitude, aggression, civ traits, government likes/dislikes, tuns-left in deals, and the disposition of the known map, unit types and counts, and relative strengths (all of which is stored in the save file) creates a complex set of opponent reactions that may appear different to different human play styles.

    If the rival is at war, there is reason in a turn to move troop(s) towards a boat, load troop(s) on a boat, move a boat with troop(s) toward an enemy, or unload troop(s) on the enemy's shores. Same with a settler pair and known available lands to settle on another continent. If a boat-landed (which I don't believe the AI knows after-the-fact) stack of troops or settler pair is no longer at war or no longer has lands to settle, there is no reason to send them elsewhere until they are needed for another war or another known place to settle, so they fortify.

    In short, I think the "AI" is effectively reborn every rival-turn and makes a series of one-time decisions on each its units, cites and rivals based on the current game state (which does include stored reputations and active diplomatic deals, and rules such as traits, and preferred and shunned government types). Since the game state doesn't change much each turn, there is an appearance of continuity since if there was reason for a unit to move towards a particular location that reason usually still exists the next turn and the next until the location is reached.

    Edit: I guess if we were to agree that all memory/strategy/learning is stored in the save game file, all that's left to discuss is how learned that information is and whether it qualifies as AI and/or can learn within the span of one game. But even if it is a series of preprogrammed weighed reactions to simple game data I still find it fun, and I react personally to my computer rivals, those jerks.
     
  10. Buttercup

    Buttercup King

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    I'm not disagreeing with any point you made puppeteer, as I have no idea at all what's going on with this particular bug, but I can offer a detail about this game which might be useful to what you wrote:

    Korea is still settling empty islands and there is still plenty of other locations available for the AI to know it has spare settlers with which it could put to use elsewhere.

    This scenario is all still in the settler stage of the AI's programme. More so, the second settler pair is a long way distant, time-wise to the first settler pair, so if the AI was fortifying a settler pair because they had nowhere to go, why would it build a settler unit later in the game which would have further to travel and cost more than just moving the first settler pair from one island to another.

    I'm very interested in this idea that Lord Emsworth has never seen an AI load Units onto a ship from a non-city location (ie: without the 'load' function).

    Could it be that the AI is simply 'incapable' of moving troops from land 'onto' a boat?

    Has anyone ever seen the AI move Units from land 'onto' a boat (ie: without the use of a 'load' function)?
     
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Deity Supporter

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    I suspect that the reason they do not pick up the settler is that it has a task. It just cannot complete the task currently. So the logic skips that unit as it considers it to have an assignment.

    Building a settler is logical as the current settlers have a task.

    I cannot recall specifically seeing a unit picked up, but I am pretty sure it has occurred in a game a few times. I remember in vanilla seeing a unit die in jungle after being parked for a long time.
     
  12. Babylon746

    Babylon746 Warlord

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    I think this is the answer. They don't know how to do it.
     
  13. Spoonwood

    Spoonwood Grand Philosopher

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    So they only load units into boats when the boats are in cities?
     
  14. Babylon746

    Babylon746 Warlord

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    I've never seen them do it otherwise.
    Can be quite annoying if AI-civ A is at war with AI-civ B, lands an invasion force on a two-tile island, doesn't take the city, and then makes peace. The guys just stay there for eternity - and I have to use amphibious units to take the city myself.
     

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