Isolated large AI's

[Improviser]

What is the best way to deal with them? This interesting situation came up in my current solo game (all random settings, demigod). I had severe barbarian problems, and the AI's all met up about 10 turns before I met my first one, so they have remained far ahead in technology. I am confident with the amount of land that I have that I can catch up with Sumeria (the technology leader- the first to start Magellan's).

However the problem is Carthage. I met them via a suicide galley, and they had 22 cities at that time. They kept expanding and have just build New Carthage, although thankfully they have run out of expansion room. They are slightly ahead of me in technology (I drew Monotheism and traded for Engineering with them), but with the AI's now able to contact Carthage, he will surge ahead in technology in 50-100 turns. Added to this are the Conquest runaway AI problems... since I have never had a situation like this before in a solo game, how would you deal with it?

Yes, I know there are some weedy things I have done and I need to change some builds over (eg Colloseums to Cathedrals), but the problem is still to be dealt with. The question is how? Apart from blaming the silly map generator for giving Carthage a huge continent to itself, while the rest of us are fairly packed in...

 

[danz]

War.

1) Make them waste shields building military units, and pretty soon the unit support cost will catch up to them.
2) Buy a few neighbors to go in with you. It will weaken them, too, giving you a chance to catch up.
3) If they manage to land a few troops once every turn or two, you kill them and possibly get a leader.
4) As the kill ratio mounts in your favor, they'll be willing to give you techs or gold for peace.

Cons?

Make sure they can't buy in your immediate neighbors to attack you, otherwise you better be ready for a real war, as opposed to a distraction war. Of course, if you only have weak neighbors, you can mop the floor with them and you'll get a reverse war weariness bonus for your trouble.

 

[Chieftess]

Wow. I've never seen such a runaway civ on a large continent without any other civs on it...

1 - You need to build more tightly. You're wasting half of your mining operation. A city could probably go where that lone worker is in the western half of your civ.

2 - You need luxs badly, and the Iroquois would be a perfect target.

3 - I'd head for cavs (and metallurgy).

You might not be able to do much right now, but once you get to metallurgy, build hwach'as like no tomorrow. With lethal bombard, you can pick off the AI troops. I would try claiming this half of the continent first, then build up for a huge war. I wouldn't risk many civs attacking Carthage (I don't know their strenght though). (From the looks of things, other civs have atleast Astronomy, too).

You also need resources badly... This calls for the "Poor Man's War" tactic. Build up your spears, longbows, and trebuchets. It's still (if taken as 1 unit), a 4/2/1 unit with bombard. (think, Medival Infantry). Let the Iroquois come to you the first few turns (you need to be at the border), and pick them off. Once the waves stop, move in.

 

[Improviser]

Thanks for the responses

I think that I will need to wait, at the moment I have 1 military unit per city. I won't be able to build cavs (no horses, and IIRC I can't trade them with any civ). With the land I have I wouldn't be surprised if I lack saltpeter as well.

I'll probably need to attack the Iro's with Hwacha's and longbows (hopefully muskets as well), along with an alliance. First I think I need to build up my cities, using Cathedrals and Colloseums for happiness, so I get the extra republic support, and the shields needed to build units.

 

[rbis4rbb]

How can I view the file?

 

[T-Money]

Save it to your C:/Program Files/Atari-Infogrames/Civilization III/Conquests/Saves folder and open in the main menu under "Load Game".

 

[-0blivion-]

Well, i viewed the file, and i hadn't realised how far behind in tech you are. About 5 - 6 turns in, this happened:

Spoiler :

Two civs started smiths. That means they are up quite a few techs!

It is in a spoiler in case you don't wanna know.

 

[EdwardTking]

Thanks for the responses

I think that I will need to wait, at the moment I have 1 military unit per city. I won't be able to build cavs (no horses, and IIRC I can't trade them with any civ). With the land I have I wouldn't be surprised if I lack saltpeter as well.

I'll probably need to attack the Iro's with Hwacha's and longbows (hopefully muskets as well), along with an alliance. First I think I need to build up my cities, using Cathedrals and Colloseums for happiness, so I get the extra republic support, and the shields needed to build units.

You appear to have adopted a 'builder' philosophy.
But this rarely works at the difficulty level selected.


Never mind about attacking now, your only hope of temporary
survival is to switch all cities to military or barracks and as
soon as you have researched feudalism change to that.

As soon as you are attacked, which is unlikely to be long;
obtain allies at all costs and fight a purely defensive and
local counter-attack war until attacking AI exhausted
its attacking troops.

To be honest, I think that you are AI toast whatever you do.
I.e. even with best strategy from now on, it just delays defeat.

The question is therefore whether delaying defeat is a personally
acceptable goal. If not, I suggest restart.

Others' advice is sound too.

 

[Cuivienen]

Build a huge military very quickly, move it into Iroquois territory, RoP rape the Iroquois and take Salamanca on the first turn to get the Great Library and tech parity. That's the only way you will ever catch up in tech at this point. Then sign everyone against the Iroquois and mop them up. Repeat with the Byzantines and destroy them. Sign the Sumerians against the Chinese and invade China. Once China is gone, betray Sumeria and destroy them. In a 1-on-1 with Carthage you will win. This is pretty much the only way you're going to win this one.

 

[danz]

Concur with Cuienen. You might want to raze Salamanca after the Great Library caughs up all the techs, because if the Iroquis have such a large lead, they will squash your invading troops like bugs and take their capital back. Or the city will flip back, with all your troops inside. So raze it one tur after taking it.

 

[T-Money]

I would agree completely here, but I think you should keep the Iriquai cities in the event that they are destroyed or removed from your landmass. And I would highly reccomend switching a few of those mined squares to irrigation to get growth and maximum shield output.

 

[SJ Frank]

With all the warmonger recommendations already on the board, I'd like to point out that the builder strategy still works at demi-god.

Here is the game save at 720 AD, in which I am at tech parity with the leaders (as far as the none-optional techs are concerned).

The things that I focused on:
- Using the lux tax. I think I used 10% lux the entire time, and 20% for a few turns (right before I got Navigation, which allow me to buy fur from Carthage).
- Growth. Irrigate at least 2 grassland tiles per city, keeping each city growing at least once every 5 turns, and building a granary in each city right after they grow to size 7.
- Trade. Completely shutdown research, using the extra lux and gpt as bargining chips. Get 2-fer's whenever possible.

My build orders in the cities were:
Aquaduct, granary, marketplace, cathedral, courthouse (if needed), bank or military

The one flaw in the strategy in the lack of miltary. At 720AD, I'm paying 2gpt in military support , and that's without disbanding any units that I inherited. On the other hand, if the AI's leave me alone before replaceable parts, then the game will be won.

 

[Improviser]

Thanks to everyone who replied

I had time to play about 14 turns, and in that time I picked up 8 required technologies, and I am now 2 techs behind the leading AI's. The most obvious thing I was doing wrong was forgetting to irrigate and use the luxury tax . I'm really a builder at heart, maybe next game I'll try for a warmongering approach (and hopefully I will have a resource available, so that it becomes possible).

Thinking back over the succession games I have read, the only level where a building strategy won't work will be at Sid (obviously taking the map conditions into account, runaway AI's need to be declared on etc).

Thanks again,
Improviser