It defies sense, totally.

[Zouave]

I assume those spearmen were NOT fortified??

There are a myriad of things wrong with Civ 3, including the half-assed unit values especially post-gunpowder, but even I can't get too worked up over combat. Maybe you just had a run of bad luck. It seems to work well enough for me.

 

[Andre]

ainwood...what I posted was with regards to the post before it, that's all, nothing to do with my unpleasant experiences whatsoever.

It's plainly defending spearmen that my units just keep falling pitifully to, warriors, cavalry, spearmen, even archers though they get to inflict at least 2 or 3 points of damage before they fall. But they still fall. And the next archer that advances to engage the defending spearmen in combat also falls. It always does.

And swordsmen....sometimes they also do lose inexplicably to defending spearmen too, though there's an approximately 60% chance that they'll emerge victorious after each round of combat.

So....

And I've yet to have a run of good luck.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by philippe
so andre you dont like the spearman?
wait until the A.I has tanks then you will love your spearmen

Many forum posters asserted that spearmen were invincible, beating tanks, mechanized infantry, planes, bombs, artillery, knights, well everything. So I instituted a spearman defensive strategy. No matter what the AI did, I built spearmen.

I may have to rethink my all spearmen, all the time defense.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Andre
I DO understand the entire combat system, for heaven's sake......ADF values, movement allowances and all....and I'll usually develop at least 7-9 cities before the A.D. years

Anyway just have a look at this dully typical game here.....I wasn't really into trading madly then

I'm not sure what your save game is supposed to show. You are at peace with your neighbors, the Germans. However, I played two ways. First, the safe builder method. No problems whatsoever as I wasn't attacked for the next several turns. Second, I started a war with the Germans. I moved two spearmen and two archers next to Konigsberg. It fell, destroyed, on the second archer attack. With a little preparation, and a somewhat larger army, I'm sure it would be easy to walk over the entire Germanic Civ. Indeed, I strongly recommend an early war in this position.

By the way, your development seemed fine. I wouldn't have built the walls, and I would have had at least one spearmen, probably two, on garrison duty in each town, if only for the happiness effects.

 

[Andre]

What on.....the spearmen and archers I had advanced just kept falling with the defending spearmen taking only 2-3 HP of damage outta 5 and remaining unwavering...

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Andre
What on.....the spearmen and archers I had advanced just kept falling with the defending spearmen taking only 2-3 HP of damage outta 5 and remaining unwavering...

I played a few more turns and actually took out Berlin with a archer and spearmen attack (Don't try this at home!)

With the position you posted, you are in good shape. But don't attack with just two archers -- way too chancy. Replay the game from the same position. Put all your workers on connecting the iron to your cities. Change all production to barracks, then swordsmen. Once you have 10-15 swordsmen, attack.

Let me know if you try this, and how it turns out if you do.

 

[Andre]

I'd also planned to mass an army of swordsmen and sweep in.....so far I've just thrown what I had available at those German cities with 2 already falling before my feet

 

[Andre]

One thing....according to the stats churned out by the combat calculator, it is assumed that

--regular jags only have a 9.7% chance of defeating veteran, defending spearmen

--veteran spearmen have a roughly 65.6% chance of defeating regular archers when they attack, elite ones 77.3%

--attacking, regular warriors have an approximately 50% chance of defeating regular archers

--veteran swordsmen have a 83% chance of defeating veteran archers, elite ones 92%

All values are not influenced by any defensive advantages whatsoever

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Andre
One thing....according to the stats churned out by the combat calculator, it is assumed that

--regular jags only have a 9.7% chance of defeating veteran, defending spearmen

--veteran spearmen have a roughly 65.6% chance of defeating regular archers when they attack, elite ones 77.3%

--attacking, regular warriors have an approximately 50% chance of defeating regular archers

--veteran swordsmen have a 83% chance of defeating veteran archers, elite ones 92%

All values are not influenced by any defensive advantages whatsoever

Most spearmen will be fortified, giving the defender even more advantage. But archers can still do the job with enough numbers. Generally, you should use veteran units and preferably something with more umph than archers. For instance, swordsmen, or I noticed that you had undeveloped horses to your east.

Another tip I have found useful. Make your wars short and decisive. That allows you to return to building your infrastructure as soon as possible, and keeps war weariness at bay. To make your wars short and decisive, build your forces up to a critical point before attacking. You had tons of spearmen, enough to allow me to take Berlin. (Remember, don't try this at home!) If they had been a like number of attacking units, even archers, it would have been easy.

 

[Zachriel]

By the way, a veteran spearman v. a 2hp damaged spearman fortified is 41%, which is not great, but doable. I hit Berlin with two archers (avoiding crossing the river, of course), damaging the defenders. Then with that pile of spearmen you had, and after a very bloody battle, I took the German capital.

Generally, only use archers when you don't have iron or horses. Use an overwhelming force of veteran units whenever possible.


http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/KillerPhalanx.htm

 

[Andre]

regarding attacking jags--their chance of victory against defending spearmen is still so hopelessly slim....

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Andre
regarding attacking jags--their chance of victory against defending spearmen is still so hopelessly slim....

Jags are only good if you attack immediately, i.e. before bronze working and spearmen. Veteran Jags v. Regular Warriors is 1/2. Veteran Jags v. Veteran Warriors is 1/3. Jags move quickly, so build them fast, find the enemy and attack.

 

[Andre]

wait a sec....there's a chance of 20.4% for attacking, regular jags to defeat reg. spearmen....and the ai always has spearmen garrisoned in their cities defensively when I attack...and that's usually before 2500BC

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Andre
wait a sec....there's a chance of 20.4% for attacking, regular jags to defeat reg. spearmen....and the ai always has spearmen garrisoned in their cities defensively when I attack...and that's usually before 2500BC

Too late.

I'm not an expert on Jag attacks (though I have used them successfully in the past). Perhaps, another CivFanatic can throw some light on the subject.