Is there some kind of special thing in the game that makes Japan less likely to agree to open borders since they were so isolationist? I'm pleased or cautious with a lot of people and they all gave me open borders but Japan won't. I'm +5 vs -3 and I gave them probably like 300 score points worth of techs and trade and I still can't get it on the table and its really pissing me off because I want ot move a settler past their culture border on the coast but it wo'nt let me and I don't want to research calendar etc to get galleon and obsolete my wonders.
Japan won't do Open borders
- Thread starter Calbrenar
- Start date
Mewtarthio
Emperor
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2004
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- 1,930
Unlike most other leaders, Tokugawa will not sign Open Borders with you until you get your relationship above "Cautious." In fact, just about the only thing you can do while he's "Cautious" is demand he stop trading with someone. Still, if you do manage to please him by kowtowing and giving him many free gifts (or adopting his State Religion, or joining him when he's at war), you can rest assured that you've basically got a monopoly on all goods coming in or out of Japan.
obsolete
Deity
Giving many free gifts is not the solution, and often does more harm than it's worth.
You can only get up to +4 for gifting. Any more and it is ignored. Also each time you gift to Japan, you (in most cases) get a corresponding - rating with other nations . So balance it out carefully. Very rarely is it worth gifting, especially to Jap!
You can only get up to +4 for gifting. Any more and it is ignored. Also each time you gift to Japan, you (in most cases) get a corresponding - rating with other nations . So balance it out carefully. Very rarely is it worth gifting, especially to Jap!
Actually the problem is with Tokugawa, not Japan. But since he's the only leader of Japan, I don't think it matters. 
Toku is very isolated and stay away from global politics. He's cool most of the time, just don't piss him off, or there'll be hell. Atleast he's not a warmonger like Montezuma.
Toku is very isolated and stay away from global politics. He's cool most of the time, just don't piss him off, or there'll be hell. Atleast he's not a warmonger like Montezuma.
gettingfat
Emperor
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Believe it or not, Toku is actually a good neighbour, as long as his presence does not stop you from getting strategic resources.
He is not very aggressive like Montzy or Alex, or as demanding as the two French jexks (sorry to the French people, the game just made them too obnoxious), so if you power ranking is decent, he seldom attacks you. Even he is aggressive and protective, his tech rate is sort of below average, so you can wait till your military is strong enough to attack him.
Because he is usally not friends of everybody, attacking him won't hurt your dip. rating too much. He doesn't like trading tech anyway, so keeping him as a friend does not benefit you, then why not choose him as your first or second preys?
He is not very aggressive like Montzy or Alex, or as demanding as the two French jexks (sorry to the French people, the game just made them too obnoxious), so if you power ranking is decent, he seldom attacks you. Even he is aggressive and protective, his tech rate is sort of below average, so you can wait till your military is strong enough to attack him.
Because he is usally not friends of everybody, attacking him won't hurt your dip. rating too much. He doesn't like trading tech anyway, so keeping him as a friend does not benefit you, then why not choose him as your first or second preys?
mike p
King
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- Mar 2, 2005
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- 705
Toku is a good neighbor. Once you get currency, you can sell him resources for gold per turn, or sell him technologies for much needed cash. You won't get full beaker value back most of the time, but you will still get improved relations via the 'fair and forthright' modifier, and Toku isn't too likely to go around trading the tech to others either.
Of course, if you're a different a different religion or refuse to give him help then you can pretty much kiss any chance of open borders goodbye.
Of course, if you're a different a different religion or refuse to give him help then you can pretty much kiss any chance of open borders goodbye.
obsolete
Deity
IF he picks up a religion, then this indeed will hurt your dip unless he is the only one using that one. Which the odds of that are probably 100 standard deviations away from the mean.
Well the problem is we're playing a multiplayer game. I have Egypt directly south of me and the vikings blocking me off from the rest of the continent. The Vikings are moderately pleased with me and the zulu's are like +10+13 or something and ne of the vikings. Toku is south of them and east of vikings and my friend playing rome is south of japan with China sw of him on a peninsula and Incas east of japan/zulu on another big one.
My friend is busy expanding to the new world and I'm letting him since I have a huge tech/wonder advantage and should be able to take over most if not all of the main continent. I want to take egypt and use his coastal cities as a base to hit China. What i wanted to do was drop a settler in a little bit of open land between my friend and japan and then culture bomb it with my great artist. their cities are around 700ish culture so 6k would be nice. The problem is I can't get my guys past Japan and I don't want Calendar/Astronomy since they both obsolete wonders of mine. I managed to snag stone and marble early game and I'm in the process of changing my capitol to a bigger city with more production. (My capitol with the +50%/50% civic bonus only produces 30 hammers while my secondary city by egypt produces 30 something with no bonus). I don't want to kill japan because they are too far away for a legit war until I take out the vikings (probably with monty's help since he loves me).
I may just have to either forget the culture bomb or bite the bullet and screw up my wonders. However I have financial so they are really sexy
My friend is busy expanding to the new world and I'm letting him since I have a huge tech/wonder advantage and should be able to take over most if not all of the main continent. I want to take egypt and use his coastal cities as a base to hit China. What i wanted to do was drop a settler in a little bit of open land between my friend and japan and then culture bomb it with my great artist. their cities are around 700ish culture so 6k would be nice. The problem is I can't get my guys past Japan and I don't want Calendar/Astronomy since they both obsolete wonders of mine. I managed to snag stone and marble early game and I'm in the process of changing my capitol to a bigger city with more production. (My capitol with the +50%/50% civic bonus only produces 30 hammers while my secondary city by egypt produces 30 something with no bonus). I don't want to kill japan because they are too far away for a legit war until I take out the vikings (probably with monty's help since he loves me).
I may just have to either forget the culture bomb or bite the bullet and screw up my wonders. However I have financial so they are really sexy
gettingfat
Emperor
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- Nov 7, 2003
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Hey, I said not hurting your dip rating "too much", not "not hurting your dip" at all. Toku usually have at most two "pleased" friends and that's about it. Being an aggressor you'll take a hit in your dip ratings to some extent anyway. Attacking Toku is usually the better poison to take.
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
i sometimes like him around when he's not gonna be a threat to me. he's often nobody's worst enemy which makes trading with him safe diplomatically (i won't get any lose/lose "cancel your trades" demands on either side). and trading techs with him is very safe in the sense of he won't trade it around the next turn the way mansa will. even if he doesn't have techs to trade himself, i can often get some gold out of the guy.
you guys like to pick a target, that's not unusual. i'm an oddball, i sometimes like to pick a DP partner as protection so that i can go off and do whatever builder/hippy peaceful thing i want to do at the time. if the map and politics work out, toku can be great for that. he's got an odd personality, he won't trade maps or ever sign a PA but he'll sign a DP more readily than most will, and he often keeps a pretty high powergraph. what i look for in my DP protector is someone who nobody will declare on, so that i won't have to go defend THEM, i want them purely as defense if *i* get declared on. and he's great for that, when nobody hates him and he's strong. and he generally does send some units and actually fight, unlike some other leaders.
some games i cringe when i meet him, especially on turn 5. sometimes i like him around. it depends on my mood, the map, what approach i plan to take that game, all sorts of things.
none of that helps your current game of course, i just have this tradition of posting an oddball case in a lot of threads. you can get banking without calendar right? his favorite civic is mercantilism. if you can wait long enough to tech that high, and to tech him up that high, then if you're both using it you'll work up +wise civics bonuses and that would overcome some of the negatives you have. they take time to build up tho, and it would already take time to get the techs in the first place. you can't wait that long enough if you're not close already, given that the AI loves to grab any land that's out there, and your friend sees that land too i'm sure. but i wanted to try to post something kinda sorta related to your game
. good luck and have fun 
.
you guys like to pick a target, that's not unusual. i'm an oddball, i sometimes like to pick a DP partner as protection so that i can go off and do whatever builder/hippy peaceful thing i want to do at the time. if the map and politics work out, toku can be great for that. he's got an odd personality, he won't trade maps or ever sign a PA but he'll sign a DP more readily than most will, and he often keeps a pretty high powergraph. what i look for in my DP protector is someone who nobody will declare on, so that i won't have to go defend THEM, i want them purely as defense if *i* get declared on. and he's great for that, when nobody hates him and he's strong. and he generally does send some units and actually fight, unlike some other leaders.
some games i cringe when i meet him, especially on turn 5. sometimes i like him around. it depends on my mood, the map, what approach i plan to take that game, all sorts of things.
none of that helps your current game of course, i just have this tradition of posting an oddball case in a lot of threads. you can get banking without calendar right? his favorite civic is mercantilism. if you can wait long enough to tech that high, and to tech him up that high, then if you're both using it you'll work up +wise civics bonuses and that would overcome some of the negatives you have. they take time to build up tho, and it would already take time to get the techs in the first place. you can't wait that long enough if you're not close already, given that the AI loves to grab any land that's out there, and your friend sees that land too i'm sure. but i wanted to try to post something kinda sorta related to your game
. good luck and have fun .Similar threads
