Long war-- commie or Monarchy?

[planetfall]

Thought maybe I should check my assumptions.

What do you do when you have a long war in late Industrial Age..Modern Age? Do you pick communistic or monarchic government style?

I presume Monarchy is better and will have less waste/corruption than commie, but wondering if in some situations commie might be better?

{no can't go republic or demo, as soon as change govt, AI declares war and WW kicks in big time.}

It seems like the extra free military unit supported by the communist is outweighted by more corruption/waste. But have never run communistic government so only working from hearsay.

What do you think?

== PF

 

[Willem]

One of the advantages of Communism is that corruption is equal in all cities. So you'd be able to build units quicker in your outlying cities than you could in Monarchy, which has a centralized corruption model. I'd say that alone would make Communism a better choice for war.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

It depends on what your empire looks like. If you have a lot of spread out tiny cities corrupted to hell, commie will drag your core empire down without giving you much in the outlying regions (as the are small).

If you corrupt towns have large productin, but a lot of corruption, you will gain more there so then it is commie.

--> It depends on the production potential of your in-monarchy-highly-corrupt towns.

 

[sabo]

as killer said it depends, I'm using commie right now because i have such an expansive empire (better for corruption). I normally will choose Monarchy though only for the one fact you can pop rush improvements with Money, commie kills people and money is easier and fast to replace than people. I did some research a while back and posted the results here, over all monarchy and communisms is very similiar in everything in a war

 

[Woody]

I always stay in democracy, by the late indust/early modern I usually have the production capabilites to make enough units to get any war over quickly. The only time I will change goverments is if I have a relgious civ and can avoid the several turns of anarchy.

 

[sabo]

he's talking about long wars woody, kinda hard to stay in Demo if you are in a war for 3000 years

 

[Rowain deWolf]

The rush-possibilities are the reason why I would never ever use Communism even if the size of the Empire would make it better coruptionwise.

In mid-Industrial and later your Empire make usually a lot of Income and with the Money you can rush anything you need in those corrupt cities or at home. under Commie you rush with people and will so a) wreck your Economie; b) create Unhappiness; and c) you soon run out of People to rush something;

Example: During a recent Deity-game (LK 36) we used our Money to rush a Panzer a turn in several Cities by rushing a Worker then rushing what needed and let it finish with the shields (=if a city produce 70 shields rush Worker then Settler and you get a Panzer next turn; needs 160 gold).

Try this with Commie and your Empire will soon look like an AI-Empire;

Rowain

 

[planetfall]

Killer,

Interesting, I may have made the wrong govt choice. Huh, later I may replay as commie and see what difference it makes.

The problems I am having are:

0. Core high production cities are ok, even after move of palace and FP about 3 cities away.

1. Conquered cities still coming up to potential
A. most have temples, libraries
B. some have courthouses
C. a few have marketplaces
D. Pending build queue:
d1-coliseum
d2-university
d3- {police? if needed}
d4- aqueduct
d5-barracks
E. finally ready for military units.

This takes forever and for 20..40 cities not enough cash to rush building. Some lumbering is helping but this is not a high percentage improvement.

What I was not sure of was if going to communist would allow faster upgrade to military unit factory cities. Best guess is in those cities corruption is about 30..50%. Naturally this is a large continent and some are at the 90% corruption and a few at none.

I have noticed from the other side, that when the AI goes communistic they quickly fall fast behind in both unit generation capability and tech advances to republic. I assumed they would also slide, but slower vs Monarchy.

sabo10
Do you have a link to your government comparison thread?

thanks

== PF

 

[Globetrotter]

IMHO, it depends also on whether you are lacking units or not.
In monarchy, if you have a good gpt and good treasury, then you can easily rush units saving a couple of turns for example for your rather low/corrupted cities, while your core cities with low corruption are just pumping units out in a couple of turns., etc.

In case of communism, you'll have to make sure you have enough people to be able to rush these units in your outskirt cities, and you might loose some production from your core cities too. And loosing pop => loosing growth => loosing cash, etc.

I would go for monarchy especially that usually the core cities are near the capitol or FP.
Besides, with RR everywhere, units are on the front in no time.

 

[kb2tvl]

If you need to build buildings, go monarchy in this war. If your buildings are mostly done then stay monarhy... if your empire is fairly centralized. I try to go rep. Keep your units out of enemy territory every other turn to limit the effects of WW.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

plantefall: I was assuming you know about the rushing / drafting problems that makes the AI strangle itself, and that you were considering the issue keepinng that in mind.

The AI doesn'T care for unhppiness from rushing and thus self-destructs. if you keep in mind that you shouldn't rush as a commie you are fine.

 

[farting bob]

if you have a religious civ then try commie first. if you are losing to much money because of corruption, try monachy,but make sure youre far away cities are defended, cause you wont be able to build units fast there,so you'll have to move uits across your empire before war begins to get the advantage.

 

[planetfall]

FYI all--

Not religious civ. {One of these days I want to play a religious civ}.

Need building now which is why I went Monarchy.

I have one continent but other continent keeps on sending over a transport with marines and tanks about every 10..25 turns.

Biggest problem I am having is that I am slightly behind in culture. I have 9.3mm; AI has 9.4mm.
My culture is at 83k so AI must be about 86K. I don't know if there is time to generate invasion force before the culture clock expires.

The 3rd and final remaining civ only has a one city empire, so they are not a factor.

Treasury is about about 1500.

== PF

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

hmmmm, I'd take Monarchy then, because if you then land troops every now and then in different spots, the AI will rush and draft there. This will slow them down even if you don't make any progress. Then, tkae and raze their biggest culture producer.

 

[Oceanus]

Well, don't forget, there are advantages to rebuilding conqured territory with high corruption and few city improvements in Communism instead of Monarchy too.... mainly you can crack the whip rather than spend cash to get those improvements done. That way you

1) clear up foreign pop in cities
2) get happiness built by doing so before pop starts growing to large to stay happy

I also find it easier to build in some circumstances in those foreign territories since corruption is more shared, though distance from capitol seems to play into it in any gov't type. Someone who is more of an expert may contradict me on that, that may be a preconception I had and not really true.

I'd like to see a chart or something on how corruption leves go up with dist. from capitol across all gov't types, and shows it at each different pop or production level. I.e. when you are x from capitol in y gov't, when you work 4 shields and 4 food and 4 gold, how many of each goes to corruption? How about at x+1 distance? How about with a courthouse? A police station?

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Oceanus: thsi si a bit complicated, in the FAQ there's a link to a thread (or i copied it inot the FAQ, too) IIRC that lists the formula.

 

[sabo]

planetfall, here ya go it was from a long time ago when I was a rookie
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25100&highlight=monarchy+communism

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by planetfall
Biggest problem I am having is that I am slightly behind in culture. I have 9.3mm; AI has 9.4mm.
My culture is at 83k so AI must be about 86K. I don't know if there is time to generate invasion force before the culture clock expires.

I do not believe that the culture clock expires, 'cause if the AI is to beat you by culture, it means he should at least have the double of the second best in culture (somebody please correct me if i'm wrong).

Back to topic, as mentioned before, Monarchy is pretty good if you need buildings in the newly conquered cities, especially if these cities don't have enough population so that you can pop rush under Communism.

 

[Globetrotter]

Originally posted by kb2tvl
If you need to build buildings, go monarchy in this war. If your buildings are mostly done then stay monarhy... if your empire is fairly centralized. I try to go rep. Keep your units out of enemy territory every other turn to limit the effects of WW.

I don't know that if you're meant to go for a long war, invasion, etc, the republic is advisable, unless you manage each turn to conquer a city, and then, your offensive units will still be considered in their homeland, so that you limit WW effect.

 

[DaveMcW]

Communism sucks.