Luxury Resource Trading Overhaul: Trade Networks. (with 'fancy' diagrams!)

[AntSou]

MAIN CHANGES:
- Luxury Resources no longer trade-able through the trade screen;
- Domestic and International Trade Networks; (explained below)

Domestic Trade Networks (dependent on roads, which require an initial trade route):

International Trade Networks (dependent on persistent trade routes);

Visual breakdown of the Persia Example Above

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Main Effects:
- Trade Routes are crucial, both to establish home trade networks prior to engineers, and to import Luxuries from abroad;
- Trade networks expand more realistically to simulate Silk Road-like networks.
- Warfare can seriously disrupt amenities, not only for the belligerent nations, but also neutral Civs. If war breaks out in the middle of a Silk Road, it disrupts it for everybody else. Trading Posts are destroyed when a city is captured and they must be reestablished (at half the cost/time of the first time).

- Neutral Civs gain grievances or negative opinion whenever one of their trading posts is destroyed. They also gain a set amount of grievances or negative opinion whenever you pillage trade routes or luxury resources, for each unit of Amenity you cause them to lose.

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Input or Questions appreciated. This is all fairly straightforward, it's the explaining that makes it look more complex than what it is.

 

[AntSou]

In short:

- Luxuries cannot be traded through the trade screen. They must be available at the city you send a trade route to;
- Establishing Trading Posts extends the distance a trader can travel (like at present);
- You gain Amenities for the Luxuries at each unique domestic network your trader passes through;
- You gain half Amenities from foreign traders coming to your cities;
- Duplicates provide +1 Amenities empire wide, +0.25 per city.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Impressive.. I would add the multipliers from Sea and Rail routes to the lux amount provided by trade routes.

 

[steveg700]

Impressive work. I have expressed wishes for similar systems that would create true trade routes. My conviction does diminish somewhat given that it only makes sense that a city with a market or harbor should be able to peddle whatever luxuries are available within its empire. So for purposes of verisimilitude it would just boil down to having one trade route to another civ, rather than a trade route to one city. Of course, event hat is not necessary now.

For heavy overhauls you might find it helpful to lead with summarizing the issues and the argument for change, then launch into the breakdown. Don't make the mistake of thinking people are already on board or that they will begin reading and absorbing and eventually get it.

Consider accounting for harbors in some fashion that addresses your proposed requirement for road connections, as well the later incorporation of things like economic alliances and airports.

 

[AntSou]

Thanks for the input!

So for purposes of verisimilitude it would just boil down to having one trade route to another civ, rather than a trade route to one city.

If you send a trade route to another Civ's City, you would have access to all of the luxuries from any part of that Civ's empire connected to that City.

I agree that Harbors should work as a replacement for roads over sea tiles, like in Civ 5. But like in Civ 5, you'd still need to be connected by road to inland cities.
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For heavy overhauls you might find it helpful to lead with summarizing the issues and the argument for change, then launch into the breakdown. Don't make the mistake of thinking people are already on board or that they will begin reading and absorbing and eventually get it.

You're right. Thing is, it was meant to be short. But then I had to draw it. Only after posting it did I realise how extensive it had become.

What baffles me is how simple what I suggested actually is. I'm sure another person would have been able to explain it in less than half the words. :/

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

MAIN CHANGES:
- Luxury Resources no longer trade-able through the trade screen;
- Domestic and International Trade Networks; (explained below)

Domestic Trade Networks (dependent on roads, which require an initial trade route):

International Trade Networks (dependent on persistent trade routes);

Visual breakdown of the Persia Example Above

---

Main Effects:
- Trade Routes are crucial, both to establish home trade networks prior to engineers, and to import Luxuries from abroad;
- Trade networks expand more realistically to simulate Silk Road-like networks.
- Warfare can seriously disrupt amenities, not only for the belligerent nations, but also neutral Civs. If war breaks out in the middle of a Silk Road, it disrupts it for everybody else. Trading Posts are destroyed when a city is captured and they must be reestablished (at half the cost/time of the first time).

- Neutral Civs gain grievances or negative opinion whenever one of their trading posts is destroyed. They also gain a set amount of grievances or negative opinion whenever you pillage trade routes or luxury resources, for each unit of Amenity you cause them to lose.

---

Input or Questions appreciated. This is all fairly straightforward, it's the explaining that makes it look more complex than what it is.

That's a very impressive work up, @AntSou , you should be commended on your efforts.
Even if they don't go as far as what you've suggested, I'd like to see them move Luxury & Bonus Resource mechanics closer to how Strategic Resources currently work. The more of a Luxury/Bonus resource you have, the greater the benefit to your entire empire (whether that be Amenity, Housing, Science, Culture, Gold, Food etc), & the greater latitude you have for trading them to other Civs (who might accept a resource even if they have access to that resource themselves).

The second, relatively minor, change they could make is to have Continents-especially those separated by Seas & Oceans-have a greater impact on both the specific Luxury & Bonus resources you will find there (so one Continent might be rich with Spices, whilst another might be rich with Cotton), but to also have Luxury Resources from foreign Continents give greater bonuses than those found locally (so Australian Spices might grant +1.5 Amenities to the Civs on the Atlantian Continent, even if Atlantis has Spices on it).

I would also like to see Bonus & Luxury resources be pre-requisites for certain new buildings, as well as further enhancing existing districts & buildings.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

BTW, your section on multiple copies of the same resource still giving a benefit-albeit on the "law of diminishing returns", is something I have also been pushing for.

 

[AntSou]

That's a very impressive work up, @AntSou , you should be commended on your efforts.
Even if they don't go as far as what you've suggested, I'd like to see them move Luxury & Bonus Resource mechanics closer to how Strategic Resources currently work. The more of a Luxury/Bonus resource you have, the greater the benefit to your entire empire (whether that be Amenity, Housing, Science, Culture, Gold, Food etc), & the greater latitude you have for trading them to other Civs (who might accept a resource even if they have access to that resource themselves).

Thanks!

Like you said, some very basic 'law of diminishing returns' would be welcomed. Worst case scenario we'll have to wait until some modders eventually add it to the game. I think there's a decent chance of that.

As for making Luxuries dependent on caravan trading, I can only hope.

The second, relatively minor, change they could make is to have Continents-especially those separated by Seas & Oceans-have a greater impact on both the specific Luxury & Bonus resources you will find there (so one Continent might be rich with Spices, whilst another might be rich with Cotton), but to also have Luxury Resources from foreign Continents give greater bonuses than those found locally (so Australian Spices might grant +1.5 Amenities to the Civs on the Atlantian Continent, even if Atlantis has Spices on it).

This might actually be coming fairly soon. I have a suspicion Terra maps will be scripted like that. It's already in Gedemon's mod, so given the nature of how the Terra map is meant to work, it makes perfect sense.

But it would be nice to have the option in other maps too. It could be set up at the beginning of the game, just like you can pick between Standard, Sparse and Legendary. There would be an option to choose between 'Random', where the game chooses some Luxuries and spreads them randomly through the entire map, or 'By Continent' where the game chooses the Luxuries, assigns them evenly to continents, then forbids them to spawn anywhere else but their assigned continent.

 

[acluewithout]

Very impressive.

There is maybe a simpler implementation though - keep the game’s current trade system, but exchanges of gold and resources only work if there’s an active trade route with another Civ.

 

[AntSou]

Not only is that a very good idea, with just a few tweaks it can essentially accomplish my desire for Silk Road-like networks.

Please tell me what do you think of these:

- Trade routes from your Capital or Centre of Trade which pass through another Civ's Capital or CoT unlock the ability to trade Luxuries with that Civ. (This would still require you to have to expand your trade network in order to reach them and it would also have the effect of disrupting silk roads when at war).

- Reyna's main ability becomes 'Centre of Trade': Trade Route connections to and from this City function as a Capital for the purpose of Luxury Trading. +3 Gold per turn for each trade route passing through this City. (I might finally actually get some use from that ability)

This would still make Amenities dependent on Trade Routes and it would still cause Silk Roads disruption. I think the main thing missing from my proposal is the diminishing returns of duplicate luxuries, as opposed to getting no amenities at all as it works now.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ohhh yes! I've thought about similar ideas (mostly with strategic resources) and I really like this. Civ 6 would need a complete overhaul though, but maybe for Civ 7?