Magic and rituals building

[Majo]

Well, with the coming .34 I think the magic system and the "building" of rituals need some improvement.

First, I love FFH2 mod, it make me addicted (yes, i know I'm not the only one here ). Many thanks to the whole team, you're creating really a *great* job. In last decade I played many games, but this one is so far the best Now to the point - I'm not sure if it achievable in the code, but it may bring some inspiration:

In 0.34 new rituals will be added to existing ones - sure, the rituals itself are great, I just don't like the idea of ritual being "built" in the city - usually the rituals are being "performed" and usually not in the cities. What if mages can perform rituals only on mana nodes (based on level of mage AND based on type of mana node)? They will be able to cast different rituals, it must take some time and it may or may not be visible to other players. For example to cast genesis ritual you'll need 3 archmages placed on 3 different nature mana nodes and wait some time. AND what if some small rituals are castable only during the astrological events? With this improvement both mana nodes ("they are place of huge power!") and astrological events will gain some importance...

I don't like the idea of mage sitting in the well defended city waiting for it's XP to grow or generally the idea of mage fighting in the front lines. In my understanding the mages usually don't do such things. In my understanding the mages should gain experience only when placed on mana nodes (hey, sitting in pubs and drinking beer in some small city don't make you a mage :-D ) AND based on the mana node get the appropriate promotion. Eg. mage standing on fire node will get fire 2 after some time, fire 3 after another. It make sense as the mage is getting more and more power BUT only from this node.

What do you think of these ideas?

 

[MiKa523]

Care to elaborate?

Wow, that was a big edit

Your suggestions regarding creation of rituals might make them more "realistic", but I'm pretty sure this would be a lot harder to teach the AI.
Simply building something is easier for the AI, but you can also see it this way:
Population contributing hammers to the ritual could mean that they spend time for the ritual and hammers are just a symbol and the tradeoff in order to get the ritual done.
I like the core idea about astrological events though, that they will gain some importance.

The idea for mages might also be harder for the AI to deal with and I agree with rusty217 that mages are probably studying in their "free time".

 

[rusty217]

I don't like the idea of mage sitting in the well defended city waiting for it's XP to grow or generally the idea of mage fighting in the front lines. In my understanding the mages usually don't do such things. In my understanding the mages should gain experience only when placed on mana nodes (hey, sitting in pubs and drinking beer in some small city don't make you a mage :-D ) AND based on the mana node get the appropriate promotion. Eg. mage standing on fire node will get fire 2 after some time, fire 3 after another. It make sense as the mage is getting more and more power BUT only from this node.

Well the mages aren't necessarily sitting in pubs and drinking beer to gain xp, I've always thought of them studiying their magics at the mage guilds or learning from each other.

 

[Majo]

Care to elaborate?

Wow, that was a big edit

Yes, my first one so I just check how it worked

Your suggestions regarding creation of rituals might make them more "realistic", but I'm pretty sure this would be a lot harder to teach the AI.
Simply building something is easier for the AI, but you can also see it this way:
Population contributing hammers to the ritual could mean that they spend time for the ritual and hammers are just a symbol and the tradeoff in order to get the ritual done.
I like the core idea about astrological events though, that they will gain some importance.

I get it. But how about some sort of specialized city (something like Kuriotates have) - some huge mage tower - that can be only created by some specialized unit and can build rituals or some big summons? (e.g. to summon dragons some ritual need to be built 10 times - so more towers will help). And the mages can be trained only in these tower and only per tower type e.g. fire tower can create only mage proficient in fire 1. Then the mages can get fire 2 and 3 with experience, but not another type of sphere - that would make them more specialized and unique... And the towers can be restricted per nation and per alignment. Btw. the tower can be somehow upgradeable (based on mana nodes of the same sphere, maybe religious requirements?) and on higher level provide some passive bonuses per sphere ("strong" promotion?). Like this the whole tower victory can have quite bigger sense... Again I'm not sure if it is doable in code

The idea for mages might also be harder for the AI to deal with and I agree with rusty217 that mages are probably studying in their "free time".

Well, the AI can have then some restrictions removed and maybe the AI will profit more if it has less possibilities how to level up mages (right now it looks to me the AI levels up sphere without any specialization)