Make nukes count

Fredric Drum

Civilizator
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Messages
270
So, I was playing this modded very long epic game, won a cultur victory and at the same time building up a decent arsenal of ICBMs (around 130 of them). I'd been looking forward for some good old fashioned nuking fun after the win was secured, but... what happened? Not very much! Even disregarding the fact that 75% of the nukes got shot down, the ones that hit did almost nothing at all! Very disappointing. A bunch of nukes on a size 18 city reduced it to 16 and injured some units. I want to reduce them to rubble, damnit! None of the cities I tried to destroy suffered noteworthy damage.

Has anyone looked into bringing the nukes back to glory? As simple as removing bomb shelters?
 
Look in GlobalDefines.xml. There you can find plenty of things changing how much damage a nuke does.
 
Fredric Drum said:
So, I was playing this modded very long epic game, won a cultur victory and at the same time building up a decent arsenal of ICBMs (around 130 of them). I'd been looking forward for some good old fashioned nuking fun after the win was secured, but... what happened? Not very much! Even disregarding the fact that 75% of the nukes got shot down, the ones that hit did almost nothing at all! Very disappointing. A bunch of nukes on a size 18 city reduced it to 16 and injured some units. I want to reduce them to rubble, damnit! None of the cities I tried to destroy suffered noteworthy damage.

Has anyone looked into bringing the nukes back to glory? As simple as removing bomb shelters?

My vision is that when you nuke city, then all what is in "ground 0" is destroyed. City razed. Maybe if thare is a shelter in town, then you should have razed city but settlers in the box as survivals. I studied XML and Python, you can add new functions if nessesary.
 
LittleRedPoint said:
My vision is that when you nuke city, then all what is in "ground 0" is destroyed. City razed. Maybe if thare is a shelter in town, then you should have razed city but settlers in the box as survivals. I studied XML and Python, you can add new functions if nessesary.

In this case the attacked civ should have the ability to counterattack with nukes before impact - would be more realistic and otherwise just the first who use nukes would win ( unrealistic and boring )
 
The danger of making nukes too powerful is that whoever gets to nuclear weapons the soonest will automatically win the game.

A lesser but still relevent danger is that when you get to the modern age, a beeline to fission becomes the obvious best choice. Meaning that all the other branches of the tech tree become irrelevent.
 
I can remember all the peacenik propaganda of the 80s about how a nuclear war would plunge the planet into a new ice age. Have you noticed that in this game the nuke strikes are causing global warming? For all of you PC fascists out there, which version of your propaganda is true here? Will nuclear exchanges cause global warming or global cooling?
 
I introduced a building (ICBM Silo) with is needed to build nukes in a city. This building now produces unhappiness in that city. So you have to be carfull where to build silos. Sadly i don't know how to limit the amount of nukes per silo :-/

Next i introduce tactical nukes (weaker an only damaging the tile where it explodes). They are possible to be placed on Submarines. But i wasn't able to limit the range of those nukes, as it was in civ3 :-(

any ideas, you python gurus?
 
CKHenson said:
I can remember all the peacenik propaganda of the 80s about how a nuclear war would plunge the planet into a new ice age. Have you noticed that in this game the nuke strikes are causing global warming? For all of you PC fascists out there, which version of your propaganda is true here? Will nuclear exchanges cause global warming or global cooling?

CK, that's easy. Global warming can certainly cause an ice age. Think of the polar caps melting, and all the cold fresh water that would reach the gulf stream. The winds and ocean currents coming from the equator is what keeps most of everything warm. Add a crapload of cold, melted ice water into the mix and there will be problems. I take it you've never heard of "The Great Conveyer Belt"...
 
Nuclear exchanges = aerosols pumped into the stratosphere, courtesy of the bombs themselves, burning cities, and forest fires. This means immediate cooling, perhaps for years.

However, over the long run a warming trend is entirely possible once the dust filters back to earth. This part is much more speculative, since the effect of nuclear explosions on the composition of the atmosphere was never researched terribly well. If I recall, the worry was that the ozone layer would be damaged, allowing photochemical reactions that produce warming gasses to occur near the surface (ironically, tropospheric ozone, a key ingredient in smog, is itself a potent warming gas despite stratospheric ozone's role in preventing warming). There were also hypotheses about the amount of carbon released by all the burning (dust settles to earth, but the gasses continue to extert a warming effect for many years) and the production of nitrous oxides in the explosions and burning.

The nuclear winter research is much better than the nuclear summer research simply because the nuclear summer hypothesis only kicks in after the nuclear winter has passed. It's therefore much more speculative.

If I were to model climate effects of nuclear exchanges in the game, I would track the number of nukes exploded over the last two turns and proportionally cool the earth. 150 nukes should generate immediate and intense cooling, leading to starvation in cities. In such a mod I'd probably also remove the "only 1 pop lost due to starvation per turn" rule, since that would artificially mitigate the effect of a few years' cooling. As for warming, I would base that on how many nukes were exploded in the last 25 years or so, and make the effect much weaker per nuke than the cooling effect.

The result? A large-scale nuclear exchange would lead to immediate mass starvation. After a few turns, the climate would return to its pre-war state and then begin a slow warming which would only end after another 20 years or so.

Question: Are improvements in Civ IV destroyed when climate change renders them unbuildable on their new terrain? Mod-makers would need to decide whether this was a good idea. Perhaps farms should be destroyed if their plains become tundra. Then again, perhaps they merely become inactive or less productive, regaining full productivity after the nuclear winter.

BTW what exactly is "fascist" about saying nuclear war might just have an effect on the environment? It's not THAT implausible to think that burning huges areas of the planet all at once might affect climate. CKHenson reminds me of all those conservatives that condemned the original studies on nuclear winter because it was unpatriotic to say the US couldn't fight and win a nuclear war. Why, if the commies thought that we didn't think we could win a nuclear war, they'd just roll into Western Europe without fear of nuclear escalation! They pretty much shut up about the nuclear winter hypothesis after Reagan publically said, "A nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought." For some reason that had more effect on conservatives than all the scientific studies that were published. I'm sure it was just Reagan's carefully controlled climate experiments and research methodology that won them over.
 
The world got a few degress colder after wwII for a few years from all the smoke in the air. So once all the fires burned out from the nukes it would get colder. :nuke:
 
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