Malakim 0.31

[Monkeyfinger]

Not bad.

I'm not too thrilled with getting rolling by turn 168 on quick (that is quick speed, right?) and I still prefer a brute force ashen veil approach, but your version certainly worked better than I initially gave it credit for. Pretty impressive once you got the setup in place.

Maybe I'll post saves for an AV version later. They'd be normal speed, though.

 

[Slvynn]

Not bad.

I'm not too thrilled with getting rolling by turn 168 on quick (that is quick speed, right?) and I still prefer a brute force ashen veil approach, but your version certainly worked better than I initially gave it credit for. Pretty impressive once you got the setup in place.

Maybe I'll post saves for an AV version later. They'd be normal speed, though.

yea thats quick, and you can skip founding religion. You can get early lion force really early by writing > sorcery beeline. writing really important as earlier as it possible.
also i just dislike AV, mabby b/c my personality - i more like order punishment forces whooping asses of bad guys pretty hard.

 

[Zechnophobe]

Hmm, not all that impressed by the saves actually. Considering that's a quick game, you were really having to come back pretty bad just to stay in it. Might not be a fault of the strategy though, you may just have need to expand a bit earlier before kicking in the Lion assault force.

 

[Slvynn]

Hmm, not all that impressed by the saves actually. Considering that's a quick game, you were really having to come back pretty bad just to stay in it. Might not be a fault of the strategy though, you may just have need to expand a bit earlier before kicking in the Lion assault force.

thereb was no place, all was settled by rivals.
again, its fault of starting position more and sando capturing barb cities near me.
I can compare - in such situation i'd be normally dead with otehr civ or gimped heavilly. (imagine be being lanun for example)
Also i compared my save to other saves from ecofarm challenge (this game is for it actually), where all games on std play now quick games, and my save is ok, considering its my game when i developed strat (1st game with it actually), and it need to be polished more. Its just very raw - but you can see results. You can also play yourself with malakim using other strat, and post save (same settings pelase), so we can compare.
i'd like to see more malakim std play now immortal quick games (most challenging, b/c charm adepts and sand lions are more powerfull on normal), so we can compare, discuss....atm most of you just suggesting

 

[Ecofarm]

I think the free tier 2 summon, allowing mages (adepts!?) to get combat 5 early is OP.

I'm glad Malakim has something leet. Perhaps I'll try them some more.

 

[Slvynn]

i tryed in mp alot .
so far arcane path is best.
Horse/empy path , even with chalid is MUUUUCH less powerfull than arcanes. I played different games with same settings going differetn paths with malakims.
so far arcanes combined with disciples is best mix.

also wonderfull classic start rushing strategy - start with order and resereach priesthood > worldspell, cr1 priests and chalid - quite potent rush (classic start)

Also you always should be desiring more nodes.
In one of mp games i have currently running i have 3 extra nodes. I will try tower victory (finished divination already)

 

[Gabriel21]

As usual, I find that the malakim suffer from 'but what are THEY adding to the strat?'.

I have to disagree completely: After my first FfH-game I decided for Malakim: esp. their three manas give you fire spells and holy to keep the AC low instantly. And very early you can build a tower getting a tech for free plus good wonders.
And the adaptive trait is of great advantage as well. I use to combine with RoK. I disliked that in .2x games their desert ability was of almost no importance.
I still prefer Malakim.

 

[Zechnophobe]

I have to disagree completely: After my first FfH-game I decided for Malakim:

So, you mean you played one FFH game, and decided the Malakim were the best? Or am I misunderstanding this?

esp. their three manas give you fire spells and holy to keep the AC low instantly. And very early you can build a tower getting a tech for free plus good wonders.

Other than the fact that their starting mana's give slightly easier access to the Temple of Free Tech (Anyone with the tech to build that wonder could just build a few nodes however), mana isn't a particulary good discriminant between civ's. They get some stuff, and others get other stuff, but they are all fairly well balanced.

And the adaptive trait is of great advantage as well. I use to combine with RoK. I disliked that in .2x games their desert ability was of almost no importance.
I still prefer Malakim.

.2x? You mean like the version 10 versions ago? Or do you mean .32'x'?

Adaptive trait is fairly nice, being able to choose a trait twice, maybe three times, during a game. Not something unique to them however. And the real value you get out of it is only if you actually have good reason to change traits. I tend to choose one of the better traits and stick with it most of the game, meaning it's only slightly better than if that trait was the one I had to begin with.

 

[Gabriel21]

So, you mean you played one FFH game, and decided the Malakim were the best? Or am I misunderstanding this?

You misunderstood it completely. I usually make a strategic analysis once I understand the basic principles. In my way of playing a good advantage is getting quite early the fire ball spell, so you need never the rather slow catapults etc. and sanctuary to lower the AC as soon as one need it.
Also the adaptive trait offers the possibility to choose and to change.

But at all, we have personal differences to play, so it is not possible, to tell what is the very best strategy, civ, trait, hero etc. Therefore I dislike that one civ is regarded as boring or weak or best. Each have pros and contras, that's the fun.

 

[Gabriel21]

Other than the fact that their starting mana's give slightly easier access to the Temple of Free Tech (Anyone with the tech to build that wonder could just build a few nodes however), mana isn't a particulary good discriminant between civ's. They get some stuff, and others get other stuff, but they are all fairly well balanced.

In several games, esp. in the early stages, mana nodes were rare and therefore not easily accessible to any civ (In my current game I had no available mana node till round >250 in epic speed. And this had to be conquered as it was already occupied.). In this eary phase for my way of playing fire mana to attack, defend and siege gives a much higher value than others. When playing e.g. without coasts and islands the water node is not so important (for fighting). So e.g. Falun looses some of their advantages in the dry lands, where e.g. Water III is almost senseless. With higher techs available I feel Air III is more powerful as Fire III (I dislike burning woods without having Water I).

So I cannot agree to what you said, the game is by far more complicated which is fine. The point is to combine advantages to overcome disadvantages in specific cases.

If mana nodes were more abundant or quickly available at the very starting point there are other things to be considered of and balanced in another way. So again I have to disagree.

 

[Gabriel21]

I really just wish LightBringers were more generally useful. Maybe strength 3, or maybe cost a bit less. Seems like a heck of a cost just to get a bit of vision.

I agree, they are more or less senseless or of no high specific value.