Mapfinder settings?

[Darkness]

So, I'm currently looking for a good start for another HoF run, using Mapfinder of course ( @ Moonsinger & Dianthus).

What I'd like to know is what settings you use for mapfinder, and then I don't mean the ingame variables (mapsize etc.), but settings for domination limit, no. of grassland, river and cattle or other bonus/luxury resources).

I'm currently running:

Domination limit: minimum 4400

In starting 9:
Grassland tiles: minimum 4
River tiles: minimum 4
Cattle: minimum 1

So, what about you????

 

[superslug]

I usually go minimum of six grassland, 1 river and 2 cattle.

 

[Svar]

Those numbers look good to me. I play the Mayans so 1 cow and a river start is all I need for my first settler factory. My mininum number of settler factories by 1000 BC is now 3 so I have to play about 40 turns just to see if the potential is there. If it isn't I abandon the game and start another one. One other starting criterion I now have is 3 bonus grassland tiles or equivalent in the 21 tile city border.

 

[Moonsinger]

My setting is usually as follows:

Minimum domination limit = 4400
Minimum # of grassland tiles = 6
Minimum # of River = 1
Minimum # of Cattle = 1

Note: One source of fresh water is all I need. However, the river don't normally form in only 1 tile.

 

[EMan]

@Moonsinger: Using your criteria, will MF "Accept" the Map if you have a fresh water lake but NO river?

Presumably, you would consider a lake to be as good as, if not better than, a river for your Capital city?

If this is the case, would you have to accept "zero rivers" to get a map with a lake + NO river?

 

[EMan]

BTW, Darkness, good luck on your Warlord Milk Run AND congrats on NUMERO UNO at Chieftain!

(I was hoping to be #1 at Warlord for at least ONE cycle.....alas it was not to be! )........THUS, I know how you must feel!

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by EMan
@Moonsinger: Using your criteria, will MF "Accept" the Map if you have a fresh water lake but NO river?

Currently, the lake tile has the exact same property as the coastal tile in the SAV game file. Firaxis must have a special subroutine to figure out fresh water lake during runtime or something. Therefore, to answer your question "NO" - we can't tell the different between a fresh water lake and a salt water lake at this moment and MF would not accept the map in this case. I'm sure Dianthus would figure this out eventually, but it's not that important because we would rather have cow by the River than fish on the lake anyway.

Presumably, you would consider a lake to be as good as, if not better than, a river for your Capital city?

Since lake has the exact same property as the coastal tile, if you tell MapFinder to locate at least 1 coastal tile, then manually load each of those 4000BC saves and build a city there. If it's a fresh water lake, it would yield two foods instead of one without a harbor. That's the only way to locate a fresh water lake that I can think of at the moment. If you or anyone know a better method, please share and we will see what we can do.

If this is the case, would you have to accept "zero rivers" to get a map with a lake + NO river?

Yes, you are absolutely correct! However, why would anyone want a lake with no river? River is a good thing! In the real world, most major cities were founded near the river.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by EMan
BTW, Darkness, good luck on your Warlord Milk Run AND congrats on NUMERO UNO at Chieftain!

Congratulation indeed! Darkness's current Chieftain game is very impressive and I hope he would get the #1 slot. Getting the top slot on Chieftain level isn't easy, especially when he is going against Cartouche Bee and Bremp (and Eman too). From the GOTM, we know that you guys are the among the very best dairy farmers around here.

 

[EMan]

BUT, you only have to look at the Post above this to see the Queen Of The Dairy Farmers!

AND, thanks to MS' "New" Farming Techniques (viz. MapFinder Program), we are ALL better farmers as a result!

 

[nihil8r]

this mapfinder program is cheating, plain and simple. if you can't be bothered to generate your own game, don't be bothered to even play the game.

what's next, a utility that aims and shoots for you?

 

[Dianthus]

nihil8r, maybe you could explain what it is that makes you think mapfinder is "cheating"?

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by nihil8r
this mapfinder program is cheating, plain and simple. if you can't be bothered to generate your own game, don't be bothered to even play the game.

what's next, a utility that aims and shoots for you?

Lol Base on your criteria, everyone is a cheater. If you know anyone on this planet that doesn't cheat (you are included), please do share. For example, instead of doing our math the old fashion way, a lot of us are using the calculator/computer. In stead of reading a thousand book to learn something new, nowadays, we just use the internet search engine to get our answer almost in minute. If that isn't cheating, I don't know what else - plain and simple.

 

[blindside]

It isn't cheating if the rules allow it. Just like Moonsinger said, using a calculator on a math test is perfectly legal, but would be cheating if the rules said one cannot use a calculator.

 

[fret]

the utility doesnt do anything that the human cant do in a legal game - all it does is speed up a rather mundane process every milker faces, and thank heavens!

If it went of looking for things the player wasnt aware of at 4000BC then it might be considered a bit dodgy, but it doesnt, so it isnt.

 

[EMan]

Originally posted by nihil8r
what's next, a utility that aims and shoots for you?

Hey, that's a pretty good idea.....think how much time SirPleb could have saved in his Sid-Level Epic Game!....Having to manually kill hundreds of AI units at the same spot!

It's okay annihilator (excuse spelling).....I'm taking your post in the serious vein it was intended.........this was my TOTAL, unabridged reaction:



Please ignore my colleagues sensible responses.......they're ALL used to serious posts here!

 

[El Loco]

nihil8r:

You say using the mapfinder is cheating? In that case, I must tell you that the mapfinder program created by Moonsinger and Dianthus is not only a great and ingenious tool but it saves us a lot of time. Instead of spending hours trying to find a sutable location, we can now rest and let the computer do it for us, this gives us more time to spend with our families, friends, etc. If you want to waste your time then fine, call it cheating, but to me mapfinder is a great-time saving tool. So instead of criticizing, you should thank Moonsinger and Dainthus for making a program you can only dream of designing.

 

[Aeson]

Please, lets keep this civil. I know "cheating" is always a controversial issue, but no personal insults, mocking of a player's position, or derogatory comments are needed.

 

[superslug]

Originally posted by nihil8r
this mapfinder program is cheating, plain and simple.

Plain and simple? Not at all.

I personally think there's two kinds of cheating, practical and theoretical.

From a theoretical and idealistic standpoint, I could see Mapfinder as cheating. It makes the game easier and lessens the time a player puts effort into Civilization.

For me, the defining Civilization experience was my first, namely playing CivI on a Nintendo console. There was no way to have my maps generated for me. Of course since all I had was a five button controller, I kind of consider use of a keyboard spiritual cheating too.

Of course, from the idealistic point of view, I have to question the very concept of professional athletes. It could be argued that if they truly had the love of their game, they wouldn't care if they got paid for it or not.

On the other hand, we don't live in a theoretical or ideal world. This means that 'cheating' must be dealt with practically. Since Mapfinder is available to all and has been ruled as legal for fair competition, use of the program is definitely not real cheating.

In addition, since the utility primarily assists milkers and saves us time, it has contributed to an increase in competition in the HoF, I think. It seems that we have more players than ever, and people playing games more frequently. For this, Mapfinder has heightened the game, not detracted from it.

For me, it really all comes down to my inner child. I only let Mapfinder run when I'm out of the house, because I know my inner child would weep and mourn for all the worlds I didn't honor with even an exploration of a few tiles. But when Mapfinder does come up with "the" map, the realms that await exploration and submission are Civilization experiences that have no equal or comparison in my playing time...

So, nihil8r, I can see this two different ways, but I have to side with the practical side. Mapfinder means less time generating maps and more time playing, and I'm afraid my inner child is a serious civ addict.

 

[nihil8r]

i used to play the "counterstrike" game competitively. like three, four years ago. cheating was and i suppose still is rampant in that game because the coding was based off of quake 1 which was released in 1996. players would use cheats which enabled them to play with see-through walls, auto-aiming and targeting, anything they wanted . . . while they were playing in these super competitions to allegedly see how skilled they were.

how hard is it to click "new game" and see if there is a river on your start position, and if there isn't, make a new game? if i can generate 4 and 5 cow start positions and then lose those games, maybe some of you people can do the same and actually win those.

obviously we have different goals. you want to play and win. i just want to play.

 

[nihil8r]

oh yeah . . . it's really hard to make the pyramids and the library with only 10 or 11 nations! i'm going to have to start playing on chieftan if i don't win this current game