Maps and Scenarios

[solwen]

All is good.

For the unification of bretonnia by gilles and it's coming as a true united power it is in 978 (the last of his 12 battles).


For barbarian invasion, there is a barb "civ" wich really really rocks: The tongs

These bastard live far to the north of the steppe and they launched 2 attack on the world. They are so degenerate and cruel that even the kurgans and the hungs fear them (can you imagine ?).
Their first massive attack cut a bloody path trough hungs, cathay, Ind and the darklands. In the darklands they attacked the dwarves clans who lived there. These dwarves were so desperate that they gave their faith to a chaos entity to protect them and this entity is now called Hashut.

Their second massive attack was during the great war against chaos but fortunately for the old world they never united with the chaos warbands and ravaged both sides. They also attacked nagaroth and made malekith brown his pants (the ones forged on his body under his armor )

Apart from being responsible of the creation of the chaos dwarves , these gangstas are so numerous, cruel and powerful that it is stated that if they united once again and attacked the old world, they would wipe it like a leaf in a storm.

Design speaking, the tongs are basically mongols-like (like the hungs) but shorter and of course totaly chaotic (one of their main source of food is the chaos spawn they hunt).

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

interesting Fluff about the Tongs, never heard of them before.

just a note, The hungs are not near Cathay, they are north of Naggaroth, (i know, it dosnt make sense to me either)

perhaps Tongs could be a civ sepparate from Barbs that are only controlled by AI?

 

[Masada]

according to the warhammer world map i have in hard copy... Hung are both above Naggaroth and above Cathay... so with that in mind maybe we should link the Chaos wastes of both areas (would probably be better in game terms as well).

I didnt know the name of the Tong... but i did know that they Kurgan, Dolgan, Norse and Hung were not the most hardcore of the Chaos tribes... and that really they are the weakest and its only when the other chaos tribes from closer to the eye start moving south that they attack the old world

So how should we make this happen... i would propose that for now we make Chaos unplayable... and just have barb events where they pour in as well as normal indestructable barb camps in the wastes (the wastes themselves can damage all non-chaos units -15% of something a turn) till we can come up with a decent way of representing Chaos

as to the Brettonian question... im sure your right... but maybe we can have it spawn in 300-400 and represent its greater unity around 900... by maybe giving them extra soldiers or some at that date? or a hero?

because im pretty sure that Kislev wasnt founded as Kislev until like 2000 or something... because the Kislevites were by no means the first group to live in Kiselv... and they only founded as a city Kislev... Erengrad, Prague and Bolgasgrad were founded by a group before the Kislevites moved in (who still make up the majority of the population in Erengrad and Prague... which if i may add are both almost empty in summer and only fill up in Winter)... the Tsarina is actually only the ruler of Kislev and the Kislevites... she had to physically take over the role of ruler of Erengrad and Praag because they rebelled all the time...

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i disagree with making Chaos factions unplayable.
too many people have voted for chaos as their favourite civs in the poll sorry

 

[Masada]

the problem is i have have no thought of a simple (and i stress simple.... because complexity is our enemy ) way of implimenting them yet.... i cannot honestly see that we can actually figure out a way of timing a chaos invasion or for that matter allowing them to build up quickly.... yet

For the moment to make sure Chaos attacks we should time some barb invasions to stand in for a chaos invasion (unless we can have chaos factions gain control of units which spawn every now and then to represent periodic chaos attacks)

We can impliment them but i suggest we put them into the bag of teams that are difficult to impliment without major changes or coding... basically them and Skaven fall into this bag

Lizardmen can have normal production for the moment (but they are going to "spawn" unitss from buildings eventually) and there are a few other oddball civs to think through...

However there is a question... which map are we going to use... because atm we have 2 that we can use... (and i wont vote unless i have to... but i would emphasis for the moment keeping the map simple... till we can adequetly plot things and get them right... im going to have a nice big sitdown on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and review each and every single city placement for whichever map... and im going to run a few test games to make sure the map works correctly and we get about the right sprawl... then im going to look for the code to make them spawn seperately etc and see what i can rig up... but i suggest you mapmakers choose a map and start refining it )

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

ill go with Solwen's map as the main Worldmap because he made it first, and its already fairly well balaced, its much more geographically correct (besides a couple of tiny things, way more accurate then mine ) and it looks great (i like the way youve done forests etc not only being one kind, you must have a lot of patience )

ill just make mine as a scenario later on

EDIT: about Chaos, why are they so difficult? all we do is give them a lot of nasty evil units (easy as pie, just time consuming), make them aggressive (easy to change in XML), hate all other civs (-6 relations perhaps), be at peace with barbs (include Barbarian trait in their power), make them spread chaos terrain in their borders (weve got these mechanics already, hell terrain spread but limited more), make chaos terrain damage non chaos units (easy enough i guess?), make chaos terrain spontaneously spawn demonic units from Chaos to use (treemen in ancient forest mechanic), and give them LOTS of benefits to being at war, and LOTS of penaties to being at peace. then AI will play nasty, and Players will play nasty. Barbarians should be Beastmen, Skaven, Hobgobs, Chaos Demons and Tongs. Kurgan and Hung should still be playable. i refuse to allow you to remove any more civs. hobgobs and beastmen is enough (rant over)

 

[solwen]

Thanks for choosing my map psychic . But remember that i just provided a base on wich the collective skills of the team will work to improve it so in the end it will not be my but our map. For me having spent a lot of time on it: 1 full week almost 5 hours a day (i was on hollidays and i loved making it) as i have changed it a lot of times.

For Bretonia yes better move their spawning date earlier.

For chaos , just spawn a lot of "chaotic units" near them who will go to burn the south. Put the barbarian traits to the chaotics and add new world events limited to chaotic tribes. Success in these events will grants free demons units , free promo etc...


P.S: for the hungs, i'v put them between nagaroth and vathay and all the wastes are linked so they can go where they want.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i agree with youn on Chaos Solwen, i like the unique events idea too.

yeh hungs between Naggaroth and Cathay is good.

 

[Masada]

its the fact that Chaos might not choose to do anything with them... and/or do something stupid that worries me... im still thinking my way through it... but the world events idea is perfect... i wonder if we can have a limited shield boost event... ie 100 more shields on units for 10 turns or something (Chaos brewing in the North event) etc

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

you mean "what if ai playing as Chaos dont attack anything"? they will, we can MAKE them (give them really crappy diplomatic relations with everyone).

 

[Masada]

that doesnt neccesarily make them go to war... and that wont stop the comp just sitting there.. .(and anyway i think its a rather inelegant solution atm... there has got to be a better means of doing it)

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

make them like FfH infernals then: always at war with everyone not chaotic.

On a side not, i think we should change the 'alignment' thing to not good, evil etc, but Chaotic, neutral, and lawful (need better name for lawful) it would better fit the WH world. or perhaps even have a second 'alignment with the good / evil alignments as well?

 

[Masada]

i dont know about alignments changes... but i think we are now straying way to far from the map... which we need to focus on atm (additional tweaks to core mechanics are not my interest atm)

 

[Slaanesh]

Downloaded the maps...but when i try to play them, the game says ive been defeated before the first turn even begins? bwah?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

which maps? all of them?

do you have the latest patch for vanilla BTS?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

@ SLaanesh: ive tried to look at your revised Kinstrife map, but i get an instant CTD, no warning, no message.

 

[Slaanesh]

all the bugs and CTDs are making me begin to wonder if maybe there is a problem with my actual civ4 game....
i have civ 4 regular and civ4 warlords on CD, but i loaned my civ4 BtS to my friend, who is now in prison...
so i used a no-CD hack to play BtS...would that have any affect on the game's performance?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

it shouldnt do.

besides, i just had a quick game , and got a random CTD the same as you are getting, so its not your game its the mod.

im wondering if it could be a specific unit that is causing the CTD... (we used to have an issue with gobblin archers art not being linked properly which caused a similar CTD. perhaps go to World builder and place each unit down, keeping a note on who you place. then if a CTD occurs when you place one unit (or click on their button) it should indicate where we need to look

 

[Slaanesh]

have you played through the warhammer world map scenarios? I cant play them because of a wierd bug ive described earlier (still no light shed on that), but it seems as though this CTD only happens on random map games, no?

also keep in mind i get a CTD whenever i try to upgrade a magic unit to it's next level

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

what? i thought we fixed that problem... what version of the mod are you running? version h?