Maybe the solution is simple: upkeep is too cheap?

SCBrain

Chieftain
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
78
In another forum, I suggested that there should be fewer units on the map, determined by a hard cap on the number of units a player could have, dependent on government type and policies chosen.

However, upon further reflection, I think that's wrong. There should be fewer units on the map in 1UPT, but the game should reward powerful economies and strong industrial bases.

Perhaps the solution to Carpets of Doom is amazingly simple: increase the upkeep per unit dramatically. For most of history, until the 20th century, the limiting factor on armies was funding. ("Money is the sinews of war," as Cicero said.) It shouldn't be so easy to field an army of ten units in the year 3000 BC, as is commonly done in Civ 6 v1.0. At the moment, it is possible to create an infinite-sized army consisting of slingers and warriors (and Sumerian war-carts if available) FOR FREE. If you add the "-1 Gold per unit" card, you can support an infinite army of warriors, slingers, spearmen, archers, galleys, chariots, and battering rams.

(A related observation here is that there's too much gold in the game, after the first trade routes come on line. I always have hundreds and then thousands of gold surplus per turn, and I run out of things to spend it on. Money should be SCARCE in game, as it has almost always been in history, so as to create drama and tension.)

A simple fix: higher upkeep. In the ancient era, the first unit is free. Second unit costs 1 GPT. Third unit costs 2 GPT. And so on. A big army, if you can produce it, is going to be expensive. If you have seven units moving around in the ancient era, it will cost you 21 gold per turn. You can look at your balance and know whether you can afford to enlarge your army. If you don't have +7 gold for the eighth unit, you'll be running a deficit, and when you hit zero, your units will be disbanded. In later eras, the costs can be 1/2/3/4/5... and 2/3/4/5... instead of 0/1/2/3/4...

Of course the numbers might need some adjustment to play well - maybe the first three units would be free and then the prices climb would more slowly than in my example above - but this shouldn't be too hard to optimize.

You can also address the problem of easy higher levels by increasing these costs accordingly for the top difficulties. Instead of 0/1/2/3/4 costs in the ancient age, it would be perhaps 1/2/3/4/5... for Emperor, 1/2/3/5/8/13 (fibonacci) for Immortal, and 2/3/5/8/13 (advanced fibonacci) for Deity? That would be a real challenge!

Then just make the AI as aggressive with units as the barbarians are and the religious units, and you've got a game.
 
i thing there should be two limitations for armies. i agree, the first one is gold but the second one is population.

here is how i would set the maximum unit a nation can have.

- city center allow 1 land unit (and 1 naval unit if coastal)
- encampment allow 1 land unit
-- citizen working in barrack / stable allow one more land unit.
-- citizen working in the armory allow one more land unit
-- citizen working in military school allow one more land unit.
- harbor allow 1 naval unit.
-- citizen working in lighthouse allow one more naval unit
-- citizen working in shipyard allow one more naval unit.

that way, you have to allocate citizen to those "logistic" slot to allow yourself to have a big army.

another change i would make is about the policy cards and building upkeep.

barrack/ stable would have a 2 gold upkeep
armory would have a 3 gold upkeep
military school would have a 4 gold upkeep.

the "conscription" card would give "-1 gold upkeep for encampment building" (making it a "less gold for the buildings = more gold for the units" card)

that card could become obsolete around "nationalisme" with another card giving "-1 gold upkeep for encampment building. -1 gold upkeep for military unit". (at that time unit would cost more than 1 gold so it would make it impossible to have an "upkeep free" army.)
 
i also think realistically its population. money buys the sword but its the courageous and loyal soldier that wields it.

but as for civ6 its probably easier to go money and buff the units a little. if you go food you have to re adjust f ood growth to account for whats lost to make units.
 
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