Minor Ideas

[mitsho]

Ah, I just returned from a week-long holiday in Turkey and I had some small/minor ideas there which I'd like to write down quickly. (Please answer both ideas and not just the latter. )

1. 7 Wonders of the World
   I spent half a day in Ephesos and visited one (ancient) Wonder, The Artemision. I was surprised that only two (rebuilt) columns were "still" standing and had this idea:
   In the Real World, there existed 7 wonders (and btw, 7 new modern wonders are elected atm in the Internet), why don't we have that in Civ(4)? Here's my model. At a specific date or (nonspecific) point in the game (to be determined), there is a vote similar to the UN-Leader Vote: You can vote for your 7 favourite wonders of the world, as every other civ does. If there is a draw, the civ with the most culture gets the decisive vote. The elected wonder then get a bonus (either culture or Pilgrimage/Tourism effect (= Gold).
   This model is based on Civ3. I am aware that civ4 will be different, but I thought the idea would be more clear if shown this way. But the basic idea stays the same if included into civ.
   
   (This article later changed due to the fact, that Colonel didn't understand and I myself thought I could make it more clear)
   
   
2. Ships and Discovery
   I've heard/read a lot that the naval part of the game should be stronger. Here's a very little step to that aim.
   In the first turns of a game of civ3 there is sometimes the decision to be taken wether to build a curragh or a warrior. I myself am in favour of the curragh but If I build one, I hate it when I see several goody huts but can't pop a single one (because I'm on a ship). So why not give most of the ships (to be determined) the "explore"-ability. You can for all your moving points move your crew onto a land tile. The crew-unit is a unit with no hitpoints, no attack and no defense. The next turn, the crew automatically is returned onto the ship which can sail again.
   This proposal btw. has some historic background. Ships on a exploring mission had to land onto the Isles and Coasts to get fresh water etc. and they also wanted to see where they landed. But they couldn't explore much of the inside, they had to stay at the coast. Later Explorers/Conquistadors had to do this job.
   
   
3. Barbarians (Spoiler, because it's not minor at all)
   Here's my view on Barbarians. I thought I add it into that thread because I don't consider my view to be that important.
   
   
   Spoiler :

   Three types of Barbarians: Barbarians, Nomads/Hordes, City States.
   

   • Barbarian still exist the way they did already
   • City States: Like normal civs but without the ability to build settlers or get them any other way. Big malusses when attacking another city (=They shall stay city states, but it isn't totally impossible to grow into an empire). They start a little later than the normal civs. That way, they are a small competing civ that does not put any real obstacle. (There could be some sort of science or commerce bonus if they are too slow they way described above). Examples: Troy, Teotihuacan, Venice, ...
   • Nomads/Hordes: They represent the various tribes rooming around and are thus aggressive trouble makers. They have one city which moves around one tile per turn, cannot build buildings and do not improve the terrain. They have some special units and need slightly more shields to produce units (so that they do not get to strong). If they stay on a resource for one turn, they obtain it for x turns. They start later on into the game as the city states. If they conquer a city, they evolve into a regular civ. They cannot take part in any sort of Diplomacy.
     Examples: Akkadians (not sure), Seljuk-Turks, Berbers ...
     Note: The famous such-civilizations like the Mongols and the Turks/Ottomans stay normal civs.

These were my two cents.

mitsho

 

[Colonel]

The first idea I dont quite understand so I will leave you with this bit, I think the wonders are fine and in little need of improvement, except for some tourism bonus in the industrial modern eras.

The second idea is great but I must ask what is a curragh??

 

[mitsho]

Curragh is the first ship you get with Alphabet, maybe it's named differently in the english version (I'm Swiss and speak German normally).

The second idea: At a specific date (or another point in the game, whatever) a window pops up and you (and the AI) can select your 7 wonders of the world, then, the computer counts all votes together. The 7 wonders with the most votes then get labelled as "Wonder of the World" (as in the real world there are: The Pharos-Lighthouse, The Pyramids, The Hanging Gardens, The Mausoleum, The Artemision, The Statue of Zeus, The Colossus). These 7 wonders then get a bonus in commerce (Tourism) and/or Culture (and you can look at the list quickly in the wonder window).
That's all of the idea, it's a small gimmick which does not take away much time and probably isn't that repetive. The vote could be split into two so that it isn't too late in the game and you can really chose your 7 favourite wonders. It's a minor idea which enhances slightly the importance of diplomace, because if you are unpopular, nobody will elect wonders you have built and you thus won't get the bonus (which helps for cultural victory).

Clearer? mfG mitsho

 

[Graadiapolistan]

I think the mini-civilizations "barbarian civs" should start to pop up in the middle of the ancient age, or if the ancient age is made into two ages, the second ancient age. This would represent nations like parthia, the celts, to the Romans.

 

[sir_schwick]

1. Great Works - This would be a neat way of making the voting more interesting and possibly political. Each civ can build Great Works, those particular buildings and such being unique to the civ. When they finish a Great Works, they get to choose from the list of not already taken SW or GW effects. However now GW effects would have two-stages. The first stage, where multiple people can build a Great Works wtih a GW effect, would be much less powerful. However once the 'official' wonders are voted on, they gain their full and glorious effects. Also, the voting does not have to end up with each effect represented. It would be possible for two or three or more Civs to each have GW that had the same effect.

Spoiler Barbarians :

* City States - They should start at the same time as the other civs(maybe some later) and actually be able to build cheaper(-10%) units. Once they capture another city, they achieve normal Civ status. There is no reason that minor states and barbarians should not be a major concern for players. It certainly would slow down the explosive expansion of the early game.
* Aggressive Nomads - Their camp should be able to build first-tier buildings. Many nomads were quite advanced in the ancient ages. This would make them dangerous, with equal cost units, roving states until the middle ages when your tech slowly goes up.

 

[sir_schwick]

If you read the home page, no more ages.

 

[Graadiapolistan]

no, the minor civs should be less powerful, and start later. Besause, otherwise they're not mnor

 

[sir_schwick]

Minor means they do not build empires. Maybe they should be called non-expansive states rather than minor. They don't expand, which quickly puts them behind.

 

[Graadiapolistan]

I think it would be cool, you have 5 major civs, like Rome, England, Sumeria, Egypt, and Japan. And you have 10-12 mini countries that are all allied with different empires. Like, you go to war and take Poland, Parthia, Afghanistan, and Turkey with you against Japan. Other large nations stay out of it, but Japan has some allies like, Morroco and Iceland. Japan has a bigger military than you, but none of the other countries really like Japan, so when Japan invades Turkey, Turkey surrenders, and becomes a protectorate of Japan. Now you have to get other large nations involved. You give technologies to England and Rome, for them to fight with you. England brings one ally, Rome brings three. Japan gives money to sumeria to fight. Sumeria, brings three small nations to the battlefield. Two small nations left, not in the war, combine to form a medium nation, and buid a defensive army to stay neutral. Japan and Sumeria lose the war, they are still around, but aren't that powerful. Sumeria was under a communist government, and Japan was under a Monarchy. Their mini allies pretty much, are forced to have the same government. Then, after losing the war, they and their allies are converted to a repulblic, which is what government you have. The medium natuiion, now takes in the some of the half dead small naitons, and forms one big nation, and are now a world power.

Being able to do this, is what would make civilization GOD

 

[mitsho]

@graadiapolistan and what does this have to do with my thread subject? First, your post is difficult to read and understand, but yes, this would be cool, but imo for scenarios only, because you explain the world war II situation, not something regular in civ. Besides, it'd be hard to mod it in. I'd prefer the old civ with my additions...

@sir_schwick I wrote the post before I read these previews and have already put the ages out of my starter post ... (Great Day, he?)

Your idea regarding great Works (Wonder of the World?) is fine, but would make a feature out of my idea, and we want to keep it simple, says the producer... But your idea is really nice.

mfG mitsho

 

[Graadiapolistan]

Sorry, I just got off on a tangent. It has to do with some of your post

But I dodn't want to make a new thread, because the idea has probably been posted before.

Sorry

 

[dh_epic]

I'm definitely one to get behind minor civs. I think they could add more interesting expansion (expansion by peace rather than war). And they could also add VERY interesting diplomatic options. Definitely adds another gameplay dimension.

Not to mention that I think minor civs solve an important AI problem. Minor Civs could be more prone to personalities that aren't in line with competition. Personalities like "cowardly", or "superstitious", or "trusting".

While the other major civs get the less interesting, competitive personalities. (Expansionist, micromanaging, opportunistic -- assuming they don't change the fact that those qualities make you a winner.)

 

[sengfossil]

I like the idea Nr. 2 (bord crew for ships)

 

[mitsho]

Sorry, I just got off on a tangent. It has to do with some of your post

But I dodn't want to make a new thread, because the idea has probably been posted before.

Sorry

no problem, dude

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, Sir_Schwick, there are some doubts about whether eras ARE out or in. Though the Tech tree will no longer be divided up by era (which I am not really too happy about) it then states that you can start in any Era you like.
Its possible, then, that eras are still in the game, but they are defined by non-tech factors, such as your economy, your industrial/agricultural capacity and civics levels-or how inter-connected your nation is. Whether eras still have SOME impact on what techs you can research-even indirectly-is still uncertain!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.