Missing Medieval Infantry

[Hazzard]

Has anyone had Medieval Infantry not appear in the que after the discovery of Feudalism? The proper resources are available, as are the appropriate techs, yet the unit is missing from the build list. Has anyone else encountered this? It has happened several times - the player is unable to build this unit however the AI creates them at will. Why would a unit, with the proper techs and resources, not appear in the build list?

 

[Hygro]

are you... persia?

 

[Hazzard]

Yes I am - I suppose this falls under the category "there is always an answer."

 

[dreamvirus]

Yeah the Immortals already have the same stats as Medieval Infantry so there's no point in baing able to build them if you're Persia.

 

[Dario]

Originally posted by Hygro
are you... persia?

You don't get medieval infantry with persia? Why?
The immortals should only replace the swordsmen, right?

 

[The Last Conformist]

Immortal: 4.2.1, 30 shields, requires Iron
Medieval Infantry: 4.2.1, 40 shields, requires Iron

In short, the developers felt the Persians should be allowed to continue building the better unit.

It's the same deal with Hoplites and and Numidians, BTW; Greece and Carthage can't build Pikemen. And Sumer's Enkidus replace both Warriors and Spears (upgrades to Pikes).

 

[stachnie]

AFAIR Dutch with Iron can't build Musketmen - 30 shields more for 1 extra attack would be a bad deal


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.

 

[The Last Conformist]

That's indeed so. They can still build Musketmen if they've got Saltpeter but no Iron.

(They can also upgrade Muskets to Swiss, which really doesn't make much sense, but is an unavoidable side-effect of the upgrade path setup to allow building either Muskets or Swiss depending on resources.)

 

[lbhhh]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist


In short, the developers felt the Persians should be allowed to continue building the better unit.

It's the same deal with Hoplites and and Numidians, BTW; Greece and Carthage can't build Pikemen. And Sumer's Enkidus replace both Warriors and Spears (upgrades to Pikes).

I agree with this entirely, it makes sense to let a civ keep on building the better unit. But then why do the Romans get so badly screwed when they invent Feudalism. I think they should be allowed to keep on building legions. Why build a 1.3.1 pikeman when 30 shields could get you a nice 3.3.1 legion? I know there is probably an upgrade path issue, but wouldn't it be possible to have legions become obsolete at the same time as Medieval infantry, letting the Roman player choose between the two until that point?

 

[Louis XXIV]

Do Legions upgrade to MDI?

I would change that.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Legionaries do upgrade to Medieval Infantry, which is arguably kinda odd. Having both upgrade directly to Guerilla might make good sense.

I wouldn't build Legions over Pikemen for defense, tho - the later's upgrade path is much more aluring. And I kind of like the option to upgrade Legionaries to Medievals - you need that extra attack to deal with Pikes effectively, and the decreased defense isn't much to worry 'bout; you shouldn't be absorbing any much attacks with offensive units anyway if you're playing right.

 

[lbhhh]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Legionaries do upgrade to Medieval Infantry, which is arguably kinda odd. Having both upgrade directly to Guerilla might make good sense.

Exactly. I guess its not that important, there are more important issues to adress like the sub bug and the whole controversial 1.20 patch.

 

[Halcyon]

Change it yourself, if it bothers you. Takes ten seconds.

 

[lbhhh]

I know I could just change but it doesn't really bother me and the game is pretty well balanced the way it is. If I change Legions it just opens the door to making a ton of changes(Jags, Enkidus, chariots etc) which I don't want to get into.

 

[Justus II]

Originally posted by lbhhh


I agree with this entirely, it makes sense to let a civ keep on building the better unit. But then why do the Romans get so badly screwed when they invent Feudalism. I think they should be allowed to keep on building legions. Why build a 1.3.1 pikeman when 30 shields could get you a nice 3.3.1 legion? I know there is probably an upgrade path issue, but wouldn't it be possible to have legions become obsolete at the same time as Medieval infantry, letting the Roman player choose between the two until that point?

Good idea, but, um, Medieval Infantry and Pikemen both become available with the same tech (Feudalism). Basically, Legions are your good all-around unit, but when Feudalism comes around, you have to specialize, offensive units and defenders. (Probably a union work rule, or something)

 

[lbhhh]

Originally posted by Justus II


...when Feudalism comes around, you have to specialize, offensive units and defenders. (Probably a union work rule, or something)

Good one.
Have to start those pikes and MI on the long and expensive upgrade path to Mech Inf and TOWs. Might as well start at feudalism.

 

[stachnie]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Legionaries do upgrade to Medieval Infantry, which is arguably kinda odd.

The same with Gallic Swordsmen. They may be built after discovery of Feudalism but only until Celts get their GA (I guess it is the same for all obsolete UU's) while it should be possible to build both also after GA.


Best regards,

Slawomir Stachniewicz.