Mod Concepts by a real developer : Civ4 Real World

[elderotter]

hey great ideas. To those who dont like the ideas - don't play the mod when it comes out. I will. On the flame throwers - shouldnt there be a chance of collateral damge when this unit is destroyed - the fuel tanks necessary for the earlier models at any rate could explode under enemy fire.

 

[holy king]

pills could be an idea, since entire wars where and are fought on drugs
amphetamines are far from being unimportant to warfare, but i dont think that a game like civ should include this, since the effects are just not global enough...

marijuana taking away health? come on, its the opposite...
maybe production, but that would be too stereotype ;-)

and for your opium effects: is there some medicine tech enhancing health all alone (standing for invention of penicilline, anesthetica ect) ? if so, thats unnecessary... maybe penicilline could be a tech on its own, since its effect where really outstanding...
(havent played yet, dont want to look up the tech tree now)

 

[Panzer Ace]

I REALLY like all the ideas. And for the people who don't like the Nazi part of it, get over it, IT'S PART OF HISTORY! Even if it's horrorible, if we chose not to even mention it, what will keep someone from doing it again? The Soviets(Stalin) killed 20 MILLION of his own people for no reason except he was paranoid as hell. Mao killed unknown millions in HIS RACICAL PURIFICATION campaign. No one even mentions any of that... But I REALLY REALLY like all the ideas esp the V2 and cruise missles, I miss those. LET'S JUST KEEP DOWN THE FLAMMING SO THE THREAD ISN'T CLOSED!

 

[MrCynical]

There are definitely some good ideas here, and I would be very happy to see bombardment returned to the civ 3 style. The amount of damage done to each unit in a stack would probably have to be reduced to prevent it being very unbalanced though. Also 8 squares might be a bit excessive for long range artillery, even if it could be implemented. Even 3 or 4 squares would be very long range if you think of the size of the map.

I have to agree with some of the earlier posters that the Nazism and Holocaust civics are not only tasteless, but an entirely unnecessary can of worms to open up. A lot of people will be put off this mod is you include it, (I certainly will be).

Suicide bombers acting as a sort of 'stealth nuke' is going to be far too overpowered, not to mention unrealistic. Possibly it would be better if they just destroyed a city improvement? This unit combined with the biobomber unit seems to suggest you'd need spies and special ops units in every city, which I think would irritate a lot of players. There were similar units at the end of Civ: Call to Power, which were certainly annoying. The effects of the biobomber also seem overpowered, maybe should just knock one off the population. From the realism point of view no biological attack has caused casualties that would noticeably impact a city's population. The Bio-ICBM would also need to have the same diplomatic penalties attached to them as nukes.

The junk food 'religion' seems rather strange to me, since at least some of the damage will be to your own civ. Also I'd regard damaging my city's health for profit as an act of war, and starting a war over junk food seems a long way outside the 'realism' catergory.

If it's realism you're going for I'd throw in some sensible dialogue for diplomacy. I've only be playing the game for the game for a few days but the Caesar salad joke is already wearing very thin. Also it would be nice if you could use nukes on your own territory again, since in the face of huge enemy forces any collateral damage to your own units is relatively insignificant. Maybe should cause unhappiness though if you catch some of your own units in the blast.

 

[LordO]

well all these are suggestions of course ;p ..

and as of marijuana giving away 2 health .. i had to think of some penalty.. and well .. anything you smoke aint that good for yourself .. so -2 health on a civ would represent cancers ? why not ;p

and i gave a penalty for judaism and christianity because jewish priest had Jesus killed ..

and well .. that you think these are all prejudices and stuff .. bah .. theres a part of it that are myths .. and some are true ... it aint that much of a racial prejudice that jews are good with money.

and check current civil war in france .. islamic people screaming ALLAH AKBAR (whatever spelling) and calling Jihad against the french republic .. or them calling jihad against america ?? .. and frankly .. the majority of terrorist people are islamic .. of course some arent .. but if they didnt want us to think they're evil .. they shouldnt claim all their attacks to be theirs.

 

[yendorII]

and i gave a penalty for judaism and christianity because jewish priest had Jesus killed ..

Okay I understand that logic but I have never seen that actually produce any real negative effects between countries of those religions. Europe fought the crusades under a Christian banner for the Jewish holy land and America is a largely Christian country that has always heavily backed Isreal.

and well .. that you think these are all prejudices and stuff .. bah .. theres a part of it that are myths .. and some are true ... it aint that much of a racial prejudice that jews are good with money.

UMMM that would be the defintion of prejudice my friend. You cant assume that because a few people are a certain way that all of the people of thier race are.

and check current civil war in france .. islamic people screaming ALLAH AKBAR (whatever spelling) and calling Jihad against the french republic .. or them calling jihad against america ?? .. and frankly .. the majority of terrorist people are islamic .. of course some arent .. but if they didnt want us to think they're evil .. they shouldnt claim all their attacks to be theirs.

I'm sorry but this is ignorance of the worst kind and is the cause of the Allah Akbar situation to begin with. When two groups misunderstand each other in this way terrible things happen. This is not a religious issue. It is a cultural one. Rednecks are no more representitive of all americans than terrorists are of all Islamic people.

 

[holy king]

and as of marijuana giving away 2 health .. i had to think of some penalty.. and well .. anything you smoke aint that good for yourself .. so -2 health on a civ would represent cancers ? why not ;p

marijuana actually decreases the chance of gettig cancer

and i gave a penalty for judaism and christianity because jewish priest had Jesus killed ..

plain antisemitic argument,
christian antisemitism just roots in the competition between the new spreading christian religion and the old jewish one in the early stages of christianity

and check current civil war in france .. islamic people screaming ALLAH AKBAR (whatever spelling) and calling Jihad against the french republic .. or them calling jihad against america ?? .. and frankly .. the majority of terrorist people are islamic .. of course some arent .. but if they didnt want us to think they're evil .. they shouldnt claim all their attacks to be theirs.

the problem in france is that since the 1900 workers where banned to the sattellite villages around the big cities... and that without any city planning...
(not even room for shops, parks, whatever and FAR away from work places)
later it became mainly the immigrants to be stteled there, not being intergrated (the french way of segregation is "famous")
one fourth of the french people live in those areas, not even being noticed by the other three fourths, on the edge of society...
the french government has been warned more than once over the past decade but did nothing... now paing the price
that has nothing to do with osama bin laden, nothing with an iraki former saddam follower fighting the us-troops, nothing with palestinians fighting israeli aggression
the religion is only canalising all those struggles, thats what they have in common (and thats of course some sort of problem on its own), but its not religion which is responsible for all those phenomena

 

[LordO]

well you guys are very well proving one thing .. thats why they made all the religions the same ..

why dont you try to find out differences that could be put out in the game ??

 

[holy king]

if thats everything you can counter-argue...
its not that religions mustnt be different in civ 4, its just that the way you would do it is ridiculous

 

[jdurg]

Well if my idea about terrorism could go through, one would have to really think things when building big buildings. You wouldn't need a spy in every one of your cities, but if you build a nuclear power plant you may want to have one. I think the addition of a CIA wonder would be a good one too, because the presence of a CIA wonder would increase your chances of intercepting a terrorist attack.

 

[yendorII]

I like that train of thought jdurg that sounds like an interesting way to add terrorists in.

 

[holy king]

i dnt think that terrorist thing would fit in game play, but one could test it...

 

[catwhowalksbyhi]

If you understand development at all, you'd understand that the key figures in the design and production of games and mods are the designers and the producers.

In real, professional, game development, yes, yes, an yes. In free mod development, NO!

Modders are expected to get down and dirty and do as much of the hands-on work as possible. Mods are not the same as professional add-ons or full games. That being said, if you are willing to do some of the xml and python work, which isn't too hard, that will do.

I know if I said something like that in the rpgtookit forums, I would be laughed at, flamed and mocked. If I said that in the Freedom Force forums, I would be politely asked which part of the "real work" I intedended on doing, and told that I might as well give up if I planned on sticking to "design and production." (As you can tell, the FF community as much nicer)

 

[mash]

About the terrorism issue, I really believe that Terrorists in the game should be produced by civs that have low income and low scientific research. In other words it's poverty and ignorance, and despair that produce terrorists. The richer and more educated a country the less the chances that it will produce terorirsts. So Islam has nothing to do with it. maybe terrorism should be possible in the game after researching "extremism". It's just so happens that at the moments, Muslim countries are among the most backward scientifically, and many are also poor. Ironically the rich ones are often more backwards that the poorer ones since the income is simply due to oil rather than industrial production.
Ignorance allows people to hijack religion and make crazy unsound interpretations. Anyone with the right education and thre right environment would not be subject to such distortions.
For those who claimed that terrorism is mostly Muslim, I agree, but look where it is mostly happening: In the West Bank and Iraq, in otherword two occupied countries. I'm certainly not trying to defend Islam since I have more complaints than most about it. I'm just trying to reflect a more acurate vision contrary to what CNN would have most naive people believe.

 

[yendorII]

/agree with mash

 

[The Apple]

I will not reveal who I am or who any current contributors are and their affiliation with any game development studios / publishers but this mod will have production and development contributions by actual individual game developers on their own time. One or more of us have been in the trenches and fully understand game development. This is not to say that this project is in development by an actual development studio, this is a completely free lance hobby project being proposed by people that possess actual game development experience.

Please.

 

[elderotter]

Okay I understand that logic but I have never seen that actually produce any real negative effects between countries of those religions. Europe fought the crusades under a Christian banner for the Jewish holy land

Sorry, but I don't agree - Christians fought for their Holy land which just happened to be the same as the Jewish Holy Land. Many later crusades were fought against Jews in Europe. How about putting in the Crusades for what they were fought for? Religious domination - which should be a victory condition for the founding nation.

 

[Legionary37]

1. Significant changes to oil resource. Many more oil resources will be available on the world once oil becomes viewable. New structure type to go with it, the "oil well" which when built generates a source of significant cash flow. Some areas will be more oil prone based off terrain which will be geared towards influencing major wars for oil and / or heavy oil trade.

The problem is that there is no "supply" effect in Civ 4. One tile of oil is enough to supply an entire civilization. There'd be little point in going after more than one or two oil tiles.

3. Fascism and Nazism. Nazism allows the construction of the Führerbunker wonder which enables the builder to access the Holocaust civic. The Holocaust severs all ties with all current allies and in turn declares war on them. The Holocaust then increases military production at a rate of 2x the standard rate for all units. All captured cities are reduced to a population of 1.

Inaccurate. That's like having "The Rape of the Sabines" be a civic for the Romans.

[QUOTE

4. Suicide Bombers. These units use up a population point but are invisible to all but enemy spies, explorers and special ops. If detonated in an enemy city or on a unit stack, they cause a check similiar to a nuclear bomb on all units inside the city or unit stack. If they fail, they die.

4. Suicide Bombers. These units use up a population point but are invisible to all but enemy spies, explorers and special ops. If detonated in an enemy city or on a unit stack, they cause a check similiar to a nuclear bomb on all units inside the city or unit stack. If they fail, they die.

Suicide bombers claim extremely small amounts of people. A more realistic approach would be for the suicide bomber to cause unrest\lower commerce in a city.

14. Junk Food "Religions" and "Missionaries". These will act almost as religious missionaries but they will spread unhealthyness in cities while providing income to the person that invented the junk food "religion". McCivalds and Burger Syd are two possible examples.

Silly and sophmoric. "Junk food" has has an insignifigant effect on history as a whole.

No prob, you'll just have to wait for the Disney mod where tanks shoot strawberries... Also another thing, many Americans complain about the viciousness of the Nazis while forgeting that their own ancestors where responsible for ethnically cleansing American Indians by the millions after settling the new world. Every civilization on this planet has blood on its hands and a record of genocide. The Haulocaust is merely the latest episode.

The vast majority many Native Americans died is because of dieseases, not because of wars or genocide. Part of the reason why it's been believed for many years that the America's were very sparsely populated is because as Europeans explored deeper into the continent, they encountered populatiosn that had already been all but wiped out by epidemics.

 

[screwtype]

Hinduism : enable slavery civic; sacrifice your population gives a bonus in ressources and no ( kinda like the aztecs used to beleive .. sacrifice something to the god and you shall receive a bonus .. so did the greeks during their polytheist years .. exept they would sacrifice animals)

Uh, what? Do you actually know anything about Hinduism? Slavery? Human sacrifice? I don't think so...

And BTW, Hinduism is not a "polytheist" religion and never was. It's an historical error on the tech tree. Hinduism is a monistic religion - meaning, essentially, a belief that everything is God - as opposed to Jewish monotheism, a belief there is only one God.

I can only suppose that Hinduism is not associated with Monism in the game because it would get confused with Jewish Monotheism. That's the kind interpretation. The unkind one is the developers haven't a clue about Hinduism either.

 

[g30hd3]

Wonderful ideas, can't wait!