Mod scenario ideas thread

[Baldyr]

As some of you already know, I'm currently working on a tool for creating historical events for mod scenarios based on the RFC mod (beta version available here, documentation available here). I feel, however, that there is a need for more ideas for historical scenarios - to give me and the beta-testers something to work with. Because many ideas would already be very doable - and the rest will surely be possible as soon as someone requests the tools to make them!

As an example, a Crusades mod scenario has been discussed recently in this thread. My own Russian Empire mod scenario was discussed in this thread earlier. (That one will eventually be redone and possibly also released.) I'm sure other players have their own favorite historical eras and special interests also, so please do share!

What I'm encouraging is really discussion - but if anyone feels that they are up to the task of actually designing a mod scenario of their own - or to realize someone else's idea - I would of course offer to help out with what I can in the realm om Python programming. (With or without using the PyScenario application.) But I'm very much anticipating concrete ideas for mod scenarios, preferably with suggestions on the actual historical events making up them.

What would be your dream mod scenario in the scope of RFC?

 

[LuKo]

I'm not sure if I get what you meant but my dream mod scenario would be more precise born of Rome scenario. With very hard Celtic pressure (and Melpum not flipping). Carthage leaved alone should become a superpower (just as Greece) to make a resistance to event-spawned Roman legions trying to recreate highest extend of the Empire.
Though, every scenario RFC-based is going to be not precise because of lack of time (probably RFC Marathon would be better).
For that reason I don't think that Napoleonic Wars or IIWW (very interesting for a mod even with RFC map) could be done.

 

[Bonci]

but my dream mod scenario would be more precise born of Rome scenario. With very hard Celtic pressure (and Melpum not flipping). Carthage leaved alone should become a superpower (just as Greece) to make a resistance to event-spawned Roman legions trying to recreate highest extend of the Empire.

that's exactly what i'm trying to do right now (i'm also buffing the roman AI so that they manage to conquer all the roman empire if leaved alone)

(probably RFC Marathon would be better).

yup

 

[Baldyr]

The final version of PyScenario will, of course, be built around the Marathon version of RFC. The reason the beta version isn't, is that I need a stable version (and one that doesn't get changed all of the sudden) to work with. But once both projects are finalized...

 

[Jet]

- Rome
- Alexander
- World War I & II
- Cold War
- Aztec reverse conquerors alternate history (play as Europeans or Aztecs)

 

[Baldyr]

- Alexander
- World War I & II
- Cold War
- Aztec reverse conquerors alternate history (play as Europeans or Aztecs)

How would you, within the scope of RFC, envision these mod scenarios? What historical events would have to be scripted in order to achieve these, you think? Give examples!

I've actually given the Cold War scenario some though, even though it would require quite a lot of design and coding...

 

[Baldyr]

So I was reading up on the Crusades and tried to figure out what "events" could be created to simulate this phenomenon in RFC.

Firstly, the Byzantine need to be threatened by the Seljuqs. Now these aren't the Arabs or even the Turks, but rather based in Persia. There needs to be either be a minor Civ (could be represented by either independents or barbarians) that swallows up Anatolia from Byzantium rule. (This could be done with scripted flips.) Or the Persian Civ could be revived (respawned) - although they're no Turks.

Secondly, the Holy Land (represented by the city of Jerusalem) needs to be in Muslim hands; Arab or Seljuq (whatever they end up being). There pretty much needs to be a state of war between the Arabs and whoever is controlling Rome - or perhaps the leader chosen as the resident of the Apostolic Palace. (Rome could flip to the French if they are controlled by the AI and the city is independent, for the sake of convenience.)

Thirdly, there should be peace between the Civ controlling Rome/AP and Byzantium. (Although this could at least be forced upon non-human Civs.) Because the first Crusade was initiated by pleas of help from the Byzantine Emperor to the Catholic Pope. Ideally, if the human player is controlling the Holy Seat, then he or she should get to choose whether or not to start the Crusades.

So, if these conditions can be summoned up, then the actual "event" would be spawning Knight units in Constantinople belonging to the Civ controlling the Holy Seat. Initially. The European Civs would all be at war with the Muslim Civs (the Arabs and the "Seljuqs"). And yeah, all European Civs not at War with Byzantium would get Open Bordes with the Empire. (Later random events could very well lead to hostilities, as they did historically.)

Later unit spawning events (spawning units for all the European powers) could serve as reinforcements, subsequent Crusades and the like. These spawns could take place in different (historical) locations. These "Crusades" would resurface every now and then, as long as the Holy Land isn't in Christian hands, up to something like AD 1300. (The Turkish spawn could actually mark the end of the scenario time-frame.)

Like in real history, the Crusader units would probably be diverted to all manner of other campaigns. I do however think that the only spawn available for the human player should be initial one - if he controls Rome/AP. The later, smaller ones would be AI only, as the human player would be quite capable of building and sending his own units to fight the Muslims - if he choses to do so.

Thoughts? Ideas? (And yeah, the above draft is pretty much doable.)

 

[Baldyr]

Reading further I realize that the Seljuqs could just as well be free mercenary units for the Arabs (the Abbasids). So Arabian unit spawns for capturing Anatolia would then be balanced out by a European units spawns to reinforce Constantinople - and retake the territories in the name of Christianity. Does this sound about right?

If the Arabian player doesn't make use of the Seljuq units, then an independent Rum Seljuq kingdom could still be an option. (Because we want the Seljuqs to take Anatolia, so that the Crusades can be launched, right? )

 

[Bonci]

Spoiler :

a screenshot from my work in progress scenario about the roman empire...

now i have a problem: how to model the fall of the empire?

the first thing i thougt was to "collapse" the western part of the empire but to leave the eastern part as the byzantine empire.

but if then if it conquers a city in italy something happens and it loses all the cities except for the one just conquered

so i wanted to use rhye's byzantine empire but it's not indexed in consts.py...what should i do? @_@

 

[LuKo]

Do you have any thread about the scenario? If not, could you just post what you have designed (some basics)?

 

[Baldyr]

now i have a problem: how to model the fall of the empire?

the first thing i thougt was to "collapse" the western part of the empire but to leave the eastern part as the byzantine empire.

but if then if it conquers a city in italy something happens and it loses all the cities except for the one just conquered

so i wanted to use rhye's byzantine empire but it's not indexed in consts.py...what should i do? @_@

You mean that you would like to script the collapse of AI Rome? Because the human player would have the opportunity to change history, right?

The most straight forward way would probably be to give (AI) Rome stability hits that accumulate over time. This leads to secessions and later a possible collapse. I believe this is how Rhye has envisioned it and I don't see why it wouldn't be sufficient.

If you wanna have Rome collapse on command, you can use the collapse() method (going with PyScenario). Note that the bFragment argument can be set to True so that Rome doesn't collapse entirely, even if controlled by the AI. (This would be very much like when a human player collapses into civil war.)

I'm not sure about what you mean by with the middle paragraph, by the way...

Regarding the "Byzantine Civ" - its really Celtia that appears as Byzantium in the AD600 scenario. I don't think you can make the switch in mid-game... (I don't even know how Rhye pulled that one off! )

I do however believe that the Greek Civ is a good-enough replacement for the Byzantine Empire. There is no easy way to script a proper respawn. (The code in RiseAndFall.py isn't formatted in a way that offers the modder a way in, so to speak.) But you could simply have a dead AI Greece flip the Eastern Empire - and then relocate the capital to Constantinople. Simple enough.

What you do is basically:

Trigger(con.iGreece).check(bDead=True).target(tBR,tTL).flip(eOwner=con.iRome,bMinorsOnly=False).garrison()

(You substitute the tBR value with a tuple containing the coordinates of the bottom left tile of the "respawn" area - and tTL with a tuple containing coordinates of the top right tile. Or you define them as variables - your choice.)

The Greeks probably need some Techs before you revive them by flipping them cities, and they might be at war with someone, have poor stability and whatnot. But these things can be fixed with some more code.

 

[Baldyr]

Do you have any thread about the scenario? If not, could you just post what you have designed (some basics)?

Yeah, I'll second this motion. The suspense is killing me too!

 

[LuKo]

I would love to see civs not going to collapse when having sufficient army. And stability-based penalties to military expenses. This way we could just script stability penalties for Rome resulting eventually to economical depression and fall of the empire. Possibly an event "Let's divide Rome for Eastern and Western one" could boost stability (but not prevent later hits) for the cost of loosing half of territory. Three options in event: "Nope; Yeah; Yeah, I'm moving east".

 

[Baldyr]

I would love to see civs not going to collapse when having sufficient army. And stability-based penalties to military expenses.

Collapses are coded in the Stability.py file and I've actually modded these things before. Just say (exactly) what you (and by that I mean Bonci, the designer) need and it can be done. It would involve including a modified version of the Stability module though...

Luko, what mod-scenario are you gonna tackle yourself?

This way we could just script stability penalties for Rome resulting eventually to economical depression and fall of the empire.

Shouldn't it be up to the human player to prevent this? Like not to overextend and stagnate economically. But I'm all for scripting the AI.

Possibly an event "Let's divide Rome for Eastern and Western one" could boost stability (but not prevent later hits) for the cost of loosing half of territory. Three options in event: "Nope; Yeah; Yeah, I'm moving east".

Yeah, this would need to be coded into at least two different places in the mod and I haven't done anything along these lines myself, yet. But sure, (almost) anything is possible with Python...

I've been planning on doing something like this for my proposed political oppositions modmod, where you get to choose whether to fight your opposition (risking Anarchy and even more instability), to compromise (give something up, like a Civic) or to convert to the opposition. And if your empire does collapse into civil war, you would get the option to fight it out as either the old regime or the as the rebels. But enough of that in this thread, as its just a pipe-dream at this stage.

 

[Bonci]

Do you have any thread about the scenario?

now i have click me

 

[wolfigor]

So I was reading up on the Crusades and tried to figure out what "events" could be created to simulate this phenomenon in RFC.

They pretty well implemented in RFC-Europe, and you may get inspiration from their work.

How does it work on RFCE
- If the year is after 1000 and Jerusalem is not in the hands of Christianity then the Crusade event can be triggered (it can be triggered multiple times until the advent of reformation).

- Each Christian civ is asked if they want to join the crusades.
If so one of their units is taken away and placed in the crusaders pool (obviously it works a bit differently between human player and AI).

- All civs vote about who (which civ) should lead the crusade
The civ that win the vote will receive troops that will spawn near the target area

- Some civs can use money to hijack the crusade and get its control even if they didn't win the vote.

- The civ that leads the crusade can choose the target: it can be any non Christian power.

- Finally the troops spawn near the target area as units belonging to the civ controlling the crusade


A similar flow could be used for RFC (not exactly the same due to some big differences between RFC and RFCE)

 

[LuKo]

Luko, what mod-scenario are you gonna tackle yourself?

Rome is already taken.

Shouldn't it be up to the human player to prevent this? Like not to overextend and stagnate economically. But I'm all for scripting the AI.

Point 1: civs with big army are immune to collapse (in my dream mechanics). So if your economy is powerful you are still able to maintain great army and not collapse (nor invent assembly line in XV century).

 

[Baldyr]

They pretty well implemented in RFC-Europe, and you may get inspiration from their work.

(...)

A similar flow could be used for RFC (not exactly the same due to some big differences between RFC and RFCE)

I haven't looked at the actual code, but it should be possible to port this more or less intact to RFC. If anyone is prepared to do the conversion, that is...

I was more looking to see what could be done within the limits of PyScenario, but thanks for the tip! (I haven't tested RFC:E and didn't even realize there was a Crusades feature. )

Rome is already taken.

Ah, but they you are obviously gonna help Bonci with testing, right?

Or why not help out by scripting Carthage, Greece or Celtia yourself? It really is as easy as to copy-paste when combining PyScenario scripts.

Point 1: civs with big army are immune to collapse (in my dream mechanics). So if your economy is powerful you are still able to maintain great army and not collapse (nor invent assembly line in XV century).

Its actually not a bad idea... I will probably be doing a stability modmod sooner or later, so do remind me of this at a later date.

If you can define what constitutes a big enough army for any given occasion, then I would probably be able to make this for you like right away. Because it should only be a matter of inserting a few lines of code into the collapse code. I'd love to hear how it worked in actual play!

 

[Baldyr]

If you can define what constitutes a big enough army for any given occasion...

What about something like "the number of military units divided by the current game era (+1) needs to be greater than the negative stability in order to be immune"? So you'd need 50 units in the Ancient Era to counter a stability of -50 - and 300 units in the Modern Era.

Note that there is a difference between player era (what technological level the Civ is at) and game era (which is something else, probably what the average tech level is).

Should only ground units be counted, by the way? Or could the total number of all types of military units represent the size of the military establishment as such?

Or should number of cities be a factor? Like you need 10 units per city or something like that.

Another idea could be that you could prevent a collapse by letting the military take over... This in turn could cause more instability, and require more units...

 

[LuKo]

Maybe number of soldiers from graph would be better? I'm pretty sure that version dependent on number of cities would be better. More cities=>more units PER CITY you need. And maybe a bonus for 3 most powerful military civs?
I think that Rome with every historical provinces, with 2 legions per city (or 1 legion+ 2 archers or a mix), no real danger in 1AD should be completely immune to collapse (it's about 25 legions that have nothing to do! It's more than needed to crush the army of the rest of the World combined!). Though, keeping such an army should eventually (with stability penalties) cost a lot more than every other maintenance.

Ah, but they you are obviously gonna help Bonci with testing, right?

Or why not help out by scripting Carthage, Greece or Celtia yourself? It really is as easy as to copy-paste when combining PyScenario scripts.

I've just get home. I need to see my friends, etc. And the next week I finally go for holidays. But I will try to help as much as I can However, I have to take care of my modofmodofmod...