Monastery Obsoletes

[Wodan]

Ok, who can help me out:

1) after Scientific Method, do you still get the culture benefit from your Monastery?

2) do you still get 1 gold from the Spiral?

thanks!

Wodan

 

[Snerk]

You always keep the culture benefit after obsoletion.
as to the other one i have no idea, but i suspect not...

 

[automator]

after Scientific Method, do you still get the culture benefit from your Monastery?

Monasteries have no culture benefit. The lost benefit is the +10% beakers, and you can no longer build monasteries after you've discovered Sci Meth.

I'm quite sure you lose Spiral Minaret with the Internet (and yes, you'd lose the +gold per state religion building benefit).

 

[Alcatraz]

SM obsoletes with computers, not the 'net (which comes at fiber optics)

 

[MrCynical]

Monasteries have no culture benefit.

Actually monasteries give 2 culture per turn, and this is retained after scientific method. So is the ability to build missionaries and the 1gpt from the Spiral minaret. The only thin you lose with Scientific Method is the 10% science bonus (and the ability to build any new monasteries).

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Even after monastaries are obsolete, they are still useful for spreading your religion into the last heathen cities with missionaries.

 

[Mewtarthio]

Obsolete buildings can no longer be built and no longer provide most benefits. However, any culture generated by obsolete buildings remains, as the building retains its landmark status. Additionally, an obsolete building that is a prerequisite for something else will still fulfill that role (eg you can still train missionaries in an obsolete monastery), for no discernible reason beyond gameplay purposes.

 

[widdowmaker]

i have nver understood why discovering an organised way to do research will REDUCE the number of beakers you produce in each city. i think much of this game is absurd in some of the mechanics.


a world wondr becming obsolete such as the SM or the hanging gardens? es, they get old, but their still wonders of the world...


monestaries becoming obsolete is the most glaring flaw of this type in the game. and for that matter, why do they increase sci output by 10% to begin with? and why are they needed for missonaries? misonaries could be trained at a local church, you dont need a huge building to make them.

and why the limit on synagogues and such? does god magicaly stop you from building it?

 

[Big_Ben]

As for wonders expiring, take Stonehenge. It was a celestial calendar back in the day. Once other ways of keeping time/dates were invented that were more accurate and reliable, it became useless. (yeah, I know it went unused before other calendars became available)

 

[automator]

monestaries becoming obsolete is the most glaring flaw of this type in the game. and for that matter, why do they increase sci output by 10% to begin with? and why are they needed for missonaries? misonaries could be trained at a local church, you dont need a huge building to make them.

and why the limit on synagogues and such? does god magicaly stop you from building it?

This part of the game actually makes a bit of sense. Monasteries were a huge source of research back in the day. The majority of the population was illiterate, except for Monks (who needed to know reading and writing to copy Bibles). So they were a source of knowldge, and while a Missionary "could have" been trained at a church, they generally weren't -- most missionaries were priests or monks.

And the "cathedral" limit makes sense too -- it's not logical that every little 'burg in your nation would have a huge cathedral. Most will have a temple, and the largest would have cathedrals.

Just like, I suppose it's totally possible that there could be two Statues of Liberty build, since there's no law of physics that prevents it, but as for an issue of gameplay (which is the ultimate goal in Civ, right? Not a strictly historical representation?) it is better to only allow one.

 

[widdowmaker]

the sci from mon still dont make sense, sure they were a source of knowledge, but wouldnt they have spent all their time cpying bibles instead of inventing the catapult or learning how to smelt iron?

and if only the biggest cities have cathedrals, put a size limit on them. Most of my cities in my current game are size 20+ (i have a snaking river on dessert, its NOTHING but flood plains, i went all farms also, going for a specalist heay country) and i would love to have catherdrals in all of my massive towns, but cant. its not like their villages. these things have castles, walls, temples of 4 religons, size 20, and every improvment avalible, even in my smallest citys.

 

[petertr2000]

Dont understand the lack of cathedrals either - they are MY hammers, and Ill spend them on what I want to thank you very much...

 

[crunch]

Yeah, and I want a palace in each city!

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

the sci from mon still dont make sense, sure they were a source of knowledge, but wouldnt they have spent all their time cpying bibles instead of inventing the catapult or learning how to smelt iron?

Monks didn't just copy bibles, but also other books - although most of them were indeed of theological nature. The Christian church had produced a lot of great minds during its history, like Thomas von Aquin for example, who added a lot to science (Philosophy, in this case), and Monasteries helped to spread the knowledge of these thinkers, in turn inspiring others.

Apart from that, monasteries also helped to improve practical things. They refined beer brewery (beer was an important source of food in medieval times), improved winemaking, kept herb gardens which helped to improve medicine etc. So yes, monasteries increased science output in the real world.

-Kylearan

 

[Older than Dirt]

Name one European city in the year 1300 that did not have a cathedral. One not owned by the Turks anyway.

 

[Kylearan]

Hi,

Name one European city in the year 1300 that did not have a cathedral.

It always helps to know what exactly we are talking about. So, what does "cathedral" mean? A Christian cathedral is a church which serves as a bishop's seat. Not every city in Europe had a bishop in 1300. So there were a lot of medieval cities without a cathedral. Freiburg's church only became a cathedral in 1827, for example.

A cathedral is a bishop's seat, who oversees several other churches in the vicinity. So the game-model of a cathedral actually makes sense.

-Kylearan

 

[Armorydave]

Actually monasteries give 2 culture per turn, and this is retained after scientific method. So is the ability to build missionaries and the 1gpt from the Spiral minaret. The only thin you lose with Scientific Method is the 10% science bonus (and the ability to build any new monasteries).

This is exactly correct. My first few games I did not even build monestaries but now I go out of my way to build as many as possible. They are great, cheap culture generators to put in newly conquered cities, the science bonus is certainly helpful and the ability to generate missionaries after you flip to Free Religion is invaluable, especially if you are going for a culture victory or capture a holy city from an enemy.

This is one of the areas that I consider a reasonably accurate representation of history. Monestaries were incredibly important seats of learning in Ancient/Midievil times but that function was eventually replaced by institutions that specialized in forwarding scientific knowledge that had no theological value (or ran counter to "science" that had been accepted by theologians). I also agree with Kylearan's assesment regarding limiting the number of cathedrals.