More Involved Governments

[dunkleosteus]

I like the choices for different governments when I play Civ 6, but they seem largely superficial outside of the government bonuses and policy slots. For the most part, I feel like the bonuses are only loosely connected to the ideas behind the political systems the governments represent. I'd be interested in a system where my governmental system was more deeply integrated with the political situation of my empire and my choice of government was more meaningful. Example: my understanding of Western history is that monarchies and feudal economies rose after the fall of the Roman empire due to massive losses in infrastructure. Disciplined standing armies disappeared and it became necessary to have a distributed government by giving power to the nobility as smaller lords, dukes, counts, etc. (can you tell I've played CK2?).

When I play Civ 6, I feel like the Classical Republic and Autocracy are largely the same. I don't feel like one is a democratic voting system vs a monarchy. I want to feel the difference between having an oligarchic class of senators vs absolute power with all the failings that come with it.

I want to see bonuses from the different government behave more strongly. If I have a Theocracy, I want my religious followers to exert extra loyalty. I want knights to be tied with Feudalism somehow, though that might mean larger changes.

What changes would you like to see or ideas do you have that would make the choice of government more impactful?

 

[Infixo]

1. Government could be related or influence the social structure of your society. I.e. workers and specialists, or civilian units vs militaristic units. Could influence yields, maintenence costs, etc.
2. Same with districts and buildings. Some could be boosted or nerfed due to a specific government chosen.
3. Alliances could provide more specialized effects due to a government you are allied with.
4. Also even Governors. Each one could have an additional effect, different for each government. Or at least some of them could have extra effects for specific govs.

 

[acluewithout]

I think one of Friaxis' goals with the governments was make it easier to switch between governments and policies, so you could 'pivot' to adjust to changing situations. I think the current systems achieves that goal well, and the game is better for it.

That said, I find it kind of weird how changing governments is always this smooth transition from one system to another. I mean, Russia's historical shift from "Monarch" to "Communism" wasn't exactly... ah... smooth.

I like being able to change governments instantly - I really don't think that should change - but I feel like changing should at least have some sort of cost. e.g. maybe when you change you take a hit on amenities and or loyalty. That way, if you change governments, you might run the risk of rebellion.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think one of Friaxis' goals with the governments was make it easier to switch between governments and policies, so you could 'pivot' to adjust to changing situations. I think the current systems achieves that goal well, and the game is better for it.

That said, I find it kind of weird how changing governments is always this smooth transition from one system to another. I mean, Russia's historical shift from "Monarch" to "Communism" wasn't exactly... ah... smooth.

In fact, you'd be hard put to find a 'switch' from one government to another that was, historically, 'smooth': England changed from Near Absolute Monarchy to Parliamentary Monarchy through a Civil War and decapitation of the Monarch; France changed from Absolute Monarchy to 'Republican' Monarchy to Republic by way of a Revolution, a detour to Dictatorship (Napoleon), another Revolution, and losing a major war. Germany changed from Monarchy to Democracy by losing a major war, skirting a Civil War, and then changed from Democracy to Fascist Dictatorship 'smoothly' - that is, by election, and 'smoothly' as long as you weren't a Jew, a Communist, a Social Democrat, Homosexual, in any way Different, or any other group in Germany that the Nazis marked for extinction. It changed back into a Democracy by being crushed into extinction by a Major War and then occupied by other states for 10 years.
All in all, not exactly reflected in any way in the game...

I like being able to change governments instantly - I really don't think that should change - but I feel like changing should at least have some sort of cost. e.g. maybe when you change you take a hit on amenities and or loyalty. That way, if you change governments, you might run the risk of rebellion.

One possibility less dramatic than outright Rebellion or Civil War which could make 'changing governments a real decision process would be to apply Restrictions to the Government types as well as 'advantages' like more Policies.
For instance, certain Policies could have different effects under different Governments, or even be Prohibited to certain Governments. It's hard to see how 'Collectivation", for instance, would be practical under a Democracy, or "Rationalism" under a Theocracy.

Even some Civics might have Negative 'Bonuses' if you are under certain Governments: "The Enlightenment" would not be easy to achieve under a Theocracy, or "Suffrage" under a Monarchy or "Totalitarianism" under a truly functioning Democracy or Classical Republic.

The point, I think, would be to have Government Choices with both a Positive and a Negative side to the decision, instead of now, where it's simply a choice of which Bonuses do I want right now...

 

[Infixo]

Each gov change should apply some negative effects ghat last for X turns. X could be dependant on „difference between govs”. That could be e.g. difference in structure of cards. Example. Switch from 2/2/1 into 1/2/2 means 2 different cards. That would mean e.g. 4 turns of turmoil. This could be simulated via a dummy building in the capital, with appropriate player-level modifiers attached. And effects could be like loss of gold, less production, slower science, etc. Maybe even dependent on type of structure change.