more power over vassal states

[Ddude97]

@ dodgerphreak: (So?)

 

[Ataxerxes]

I always take vassals. Partly because, as was stated earlier, it's nice being the biggest, baddest entity on the planet and getting others to do your bidding. Conquest, domination, diplomation are so much easier with vassals. Although some hate peace vassals, I've never had one break free.

After your civ gets to be a certain size, vassals don't seem to hurt your upkeep too much. You can direct them to research some item you don't need immediately - Mansa is good for this. And, reallly, directing another 8 cities and their workers can just be a drag. Some make good attack dogs (Cathy comes to mind).

A few ideas from IV to make them less painful.

As was mentioned earlier, check the screen yourself if he'll offer it. Two reasons. One, a two city vassal ain't worth it. Two, he may vassalize to someone else you don't want to fight now. Some vassalize real fast - Mansa and Gandhi come to mind.

See if you can get them into your religion so they're friends with your friends. The average AI attitude can leave you with no friends and everybody Cautious or worse.

Check the trade table. They will now trade you items they only have one of.

Direct their research so they don't start trading rifling around.

I'm a benevolent despot, which is probably why peacevassals never leave. I gift techs (that everybody who counts knows), some luxury for 3 gpt (never do that unless their vassal).

I'm not sure we should have total control over our vassal, though. I liked the old model, but maybe I lack imagination.

 

[conception]

In reading this thread, it seems to me that nobody here considers gifting back cities to a newly conquered vassal a useful strategy. Those cities aren't going to be what they once were after you conquer them, but if you give an opponent back 3-4 cities that takes away the two-city vassal problem.

 

[Venger]

Love vassals. Just played a custom Epic game on a huge map with 16 civs, domination only victory.

Vassals are nice. They maintain their own Civs and armies, provide multi-front distractions, and they get the same production cheats the AI enemies get, so they are good in a fight. They also maintain borders against enemies, something you won't be able to do when you sack towns near a third party.

Besides, it just "feels" right to have an enemy capitulate as a vassal. See vassal, think Vichy. Well, maybe not the best example...

Heck, I vassalized the Japanese and they had FOURTEEN cities left. But the writing was on the wall, and they made the smartest capitulation I've seen in Civ yet - they lost 4 or 5 border cities that they originally conquered, figured out they were doomed, and offered capitulation while still having a huge empire. Also meant they had an outside chance of regaining their freedom (not on my watch, my bi+$hes wear my collar)...

 

[Disgustipated]

In reading this thread, it seems to me that nobody here considers gifting back cities to a newly conquered vassal a useful strategy. Those cities aren't going to be what they once were after you conquer them, but if you give an opponent back 3-4 cities that takes away the two-city vassal problem.

Well... If you didn't want the cities, why conquer them?

As for the above post, impressive. I never had Japan cap that easy. Usually you have to get him down to one city. And even then, sometimes you have to clear that last city out of all its defenders (except the last one of course, unless you have gunships)

 

[conception]

Well... If you didn't want the cities, why conquer them?

As for the above post, impressive. I never had Japan cap that easy. Usually you have to get him down to one city. And even then, sometimes you have to clear that last city out of all its defenders (except the last one of course, unless you have gunships)

You have to conquer the cities to get a capitulation.

 

[poom3619]

"Vassalage" is civic that a governor have free to rule his estate. But rule in someone else name. They have right to rule. King protect vassal's land. Vassal give taxes and, when needed, fight to King's enemies. IMO, Vassal should act like part of nation. Vassal in ciV should give more economic benefit, like "King" get roughly 1/6 of resource "Vassal" have or count a food resource as 4 golds. Ore and food which gathered by plantation as 9 gold. Luxuries count as 17 golds. Addition to last 10 turn income and then cut some to add to "King" income. I say it purely my opinion. So don't criticize my numbers.

 

[Noddahrassa]

Well... If you didn't want the cities, why conquer them?

To remove a threat or a powerful competitor? By the way, what else can you do in a war? If you are superior, the AI will dig up in his cities and you will have to go after him, like it or not. Never had large field battles yet.

Especially when you're playing an aggressive strategy, some industrial or financial scumbag like Qin Shi, Mansa or Huayna will be way ahead of you technologically, and this can become dangerous. So, just pound them into submission, and give their cities back to them. They will be extremely grateful for this, you will have good relations from now on, and you can use their research and resources.

I agree, however, that I would prefer having more control over the vassals. Extorting more gpt would be nice, and also some kind of control over their military or coordination of warfare, although I realize this could be difficult to implement. Normally you really can't count on your vassals to get a military job done. And, very important, they should be required to ask for permission before they are allowed to trade a tech. Then you could bring them to the same level with yourself, since the knowledge would remain in the family. But since tech trade will be scrapped anyway, there is no use for this in Civ5.

 

[wuzmaster]

Agreed taking the food from the mouths of Mongolian children is wasteful. I have a modest propose that we to eat the babies themselves, particularly if my Vassal is Irish. They would provide a bonus +1 food per City.

What a classic! You know what? you made me laugh so hard, I spilled my tea Vassal states can be quite useful though and Bismarck makes a better vassal than ol' Lizzy (being more "compliant").
I agree however that, there should be more control as vassals run out of their us-by-date fairly quickly (and you are stuck with them).

 

[Mannu]

Agreed taking the food from the mouths of Mongolian children is wasteful. I have a modest propose that we to eat the babies themselves, particularly if my Vassal is Irish. They would provide a bonus +1 food per City.

Well I get the reference anyway...