Naval Domination (Archipelago) help as Dido

[MIS]

Intending to try Archipelago domination on latest patch (with ENW), with Dido. Thinking of taking Progress, Authority and Imperialism. So go for fishing for Galleys/Embark, then Sailing for Great Lighthouse, then Philosophy for the UU and take a bunch of cities, then to Education to Vassalize everyone after taking their capitals:

1) Would you go Authority first or Progress first?
2) Would you take the other tree second, or one of the Medieval trees
3) Would you start with a Shrine (intending God of the Sea) or Monument.
4) Would England (or another) Civ be better for this?

I'm leaning progress first to expand quickly, then authority, but would love to exploit tributes before they're nerfed! And I'm not sure how much quick workers will help on this map. Even with Progress first I feel I need monument before Shrine to have a chance at getting the SPs quick enough to get Great Lighthouse. Any other advice appreciated.

 

[Diomedes_]

You've probably already started this game, but I thought I might try to answer.

1. I think this totally depends on how you want to do your warring. Progress can be very powerful for Carthage, mostly because of Fraternity. They get free city connections so you can get that policy working full strength way sooner than every other civ, so if you b-line to it you can like double your science in the early game and afford to work production-heavy tiles you otherwise wouldn't due to the extra 3 food. If you go Progress first, that definitely means in my book that you'll use your science bonus to b-line Great Lighthouse then start to war in Medieval. This also means you can use your starting gold for workers/workboats to boom harder. Full authority first really only makes sense in my book if you have a weak neighbor with a city or two that would be readily taken by a naval-heavy army (i.e. borders 3+ ocean tiles). There are generally not a lot of Barbs on archipelago so its definitely weaker on that map. Mixing Authority and Progress might make the most sense if you're tributing a lot (i.e. take the left side of Authority only)

2. Depends on how important religion is to you. If you're playing with 4UC (why wouldn't you be?) I would probably go Fealty just because Zealotry with a yield on faith purchase follower is really strong with Tophets, and the extra Faith from Fealty will allow you to enhance more quickly. If you're going to play a tribute-heavy strategy, then you might even be able to get away with doing a very inconsistent mix of Authority, Progress, and Fealty. Like go 3 progress (to Fraternity), then 3 Authority (to Tribute), then 2 Fealty (to Nobility), then finish Progress then take whatever you want in the other two until Imperialism unlocks. This does mean you miss out on the Tribute yield doubling from the Authority finisher and the extra gold from the Progress finisher, but the right side of Authority doesn't help much with tributing and the first 3 Progress policies are definitely stronger than the right three Authority policies and possibly just as strong as the right 3 + finisher.

3. Play 4UC, and start with a Tophet. If no 4UC, then only start shrine if you have a sea lux start. Otherwise God of War might make a lot of sense if you're going for a super aggressive playstyle.

4. England is decent with their extra movement, but Carthage's start and naval UU are kind of unmatched. On an Archipelago map Carthage is probably the strongest civ through ~100 turns you can play, except for maybe Polynesia. Carthage is certainly the best equipped to Tribute early with their gold on city found and strong naval UU that can easily go from CS to CS.

 

[Stalker0]

@MIS I actually think a later authority is fine on an archipelego map, because tribute doesn't stop in teh early game! In fact, what I have found (at least on communitas) often when you get to the age of sail you will find these clusters of CS islands in close proximity. So build up your big navy, and then go cruise around and exploit all of those CS for cash and culture.

 

[andersw]

Depending on situation and what civ I play I go 3 authority (opener+2 on the left side) > 3 progress (also left side) > fill up authority, this delays happiness from policys a lot and requires a lot of lux.
But sometimes I go 5 or even full authority first > progress.
On emperor monument > shrine tends to be fine, even more so if you can pay for one of them.
Could be different with 4uc mod.
>"then Philosophy for the UU and take a bunch of cities"
Dont assume this is super easy, skipping on steel/armory also mean you are likely to be a bit low on supply cap and you still need some non navy units to hold cities (unless 4uc provide full defence with naval units).

 

[KlHannibal2]

Sounds like a perfect steamroll game.

I would in most cases go progress into authority. Even more so now that Carthage's UU unlocks later. Only with a close and easy to conquer neighbor, authority would be an option.

No medieval tree. Fealty gives yields for pastures and non-specialist citizens. On archipelago, you will probably have few good land tiles and need specialists. Buying writers with faith is huge, so finish progress.

Shrine first if you have a sea luxury or aim for a specific pantheon. If you go authority first and plan early conquest, monument first and god of all creation is a good option. You can conquer a religion. If you have tophet, always go that first and try to found.

Other civs: Denmark is also very good, but Carthage is one of the top naval civs.

A few more things: don't necessarily go for great lighthouse. Only if you have a luxury on the tech path. Sailing is also less useful for Carthage due to free lighthouses. Great lighthouse delays libraries. With a good Carthage start, you could go great library into oracle to boost your tech and get to stronger units faster.

Don't explore too much early to save the unexplored tiles for your quinqueremes. Get a few up to vanguard before starting a war.

The AI is bad at combined land/sea warfare. Use this to your advantage. When fighting a naval battle, put siege units on nearby islands to give you an edge. When attacking cities from the sea, use embarked infantry to attack the cities from underneath your ships. They take high losses but can't be killed by the AI as long as your ship lives. Get the city attack pormotion. Use embarked infantry with amphibious to attack coastal ranged units and finish them off with a ranged ship.

 

[azum4roll]

Don't explore too much early to save the unexplored tiles fo your quinqueremes

They don't have the recon promotion anymore.

 

[Laz0r]

1. Authority is literally always better than progress (I still play an old patch), and warmongering is always better than passive expansion so pick it.
2. Progress isn't better than a medieval tree so never pick it.
3. God of the sea will definitely be taken first by the AI so do go for a shrine first and hope india isnt in your game.
4. Both are about as good IMO. Dido is better if you're more talented in warfare while weaker in economic management while Elizabeth is the opposite. Pick whichever covers your greater weakness.