NEED HELP: Anti-Aircraft

[Blackgaze]

Hi guys, I know this place isn't as active as it was... but regardless, I need help.

I love civ2, and I only got the true fun recently out of playing the harder A.I difficulties. I can handle the ackward situations and cheating... but I can't stand the spam of aircrafts.

I think there's a building that helps fight city enemy airplanes later on, but it's not enough. And I find the game impossible to win with these enemy air spams since you can't see the fighters before they attack you.

What can I do to protect against air spams? My fighters are just not enough... and I want to get the strike on them instead of them on me.

 

[Jokemaster]

I rarely, if ever anymore, get to the point where Bombers (let alone stealth bombers) are available to the enemy when they're still alive, but Mech Infantry (Labor Union advance) are pretty decent at fighting back bombers, especially when they are vet or/and stacked with SAM systems. And if they somehow survive, then a fighter of yours can pick him up afterwards. As long as the AI loses more shields than you do, you're winning the attrition war.

Fighter planes should be way more easier to ward off with mech infantry alone.

And to strike them: I generally find only one aircraft unit useful, and that's the Stealth Fighter, which unfortunately comes very late in the tech tree. Bombers are too slow/exposed to enemy counterattack and normal fighters are too weak. And even so, when you start facing SAM/Mech Inf, the power of stealth fighters starts weakening. To strike an equal enemy however, howitzers rule. That, provided that you restrict to 1 attack per turn per howie, then retreat as they are weak in defence (but have 2 movement points, so they are very powerful when using railroads as they can retreat in a friendly city after making 1 attack)

 

[Prof. Garfield]

If you are using ground units to defend, make sure the cities taking most of the attacks have barracks. If you are using fighters/stealth fighters, make sure the cities have airports. These will heal your units up every turn, so the units that survive don't get picked off next turn; they will also make sure your defenders are veteran.

In addition to Jokemaster's tactics, if you are desperate for defense, turn your city squares into forests (use the "mine" command). Amazingly, the defense bonus applies to air assault (even for scrambling fighters), and the extra 50% could be quite helpful (although you will lose some production on the city square).

When comparing attack/defense rates, keep the following in mind: Airplanes have 2 firepower, making them more powerful than Riflemen/Alpine Troops when their attack vs. defense is about equal. The extra hit point for Mech. Infantry compensates for the firepower, however. If you are defending your cities with Riflemen or Alpine Troops, you will have to boost their defense somewhat higher than the bomber's attack in order to be effective. Or at least have some fighters stationed in nearby cities to pick off the wounded bombers.

When Fighters scramble, they get a 2x bonus against other fighters and a 4x bonus against bombers (and helicopters).

Striking back is a somewhat more difficult proposition if you are being severely pressured (although successfully taking a city will likely get the AI to offer peace for a couple turns). If you can reach the enemy overland, railroads and Howitzers are the way to go, as Jokemaster said. If you can get across the sea in one transport turn, put howitzers on the transport and attack (you might want to sacrifice a transport and dip/spy to investigate the city to make sure you will have enough firepower). If you need extra movement from landing howitzers, build a city with an engineer and unload directly into your new "port."

If you can't get to your enemy in a single turn, you'll want to stack your transport with an AEGIS Cruiser and a Battleship. Or you can stack an AEGIS cruiser with a "lesser" ship and try to lure AI aircraft into an attack; if you want to suck up cruise missiles, stack the AEGIS with a battleship or Carrier.

 

[Blackgaze]

Thanks guys, I didn't expect such fast replies in a few hours. Few days maybe...

I like the airport plane for city defense, that would help a lot.

The problem is NOT taking down the enemy planes that are ON the map, I'm talking about the ones hidden in the fog of war. Every enemy turn they will storm several airplanes coming from the enemy cities through the fog of war to my nearest city. I can't attack them because they arrive from the enemy cities, and even if I kill them next turn... more will come AGAIN from the enemy cities.

By this point the enemy is also mass spamming Armors and AEGIS, which I can't hold off if I'm building fighters to hold off the air spam. This is the only major problem I have with the civ 2 A.I and makes certain games unwinnable without knowing the right tactic

 

[Prof. Garfield]

The ground units should be your priority if you are having trouble defending yourself. Except for helicopters, air and sea units can't actually take your cities, but ground units can. This doesn't mean you neglect air and sea defense completely, but you can take more risks there. Coastal fortresses are usually sufficient to defend against AEGIS cruisers; use SAMs to defend against air, since ground units defend much better against ground units than do fighters.

In civ 2, defending is usually harder than attacking (except, sometimes, for ships attacking cities). It is much easier to destroy armor by attacking it than by defending against it, for example, because armor attacks with 10 but only defends at 5. Defense is a good idea on mountains or, sometimes, hills, with a fortress, or in a city with city walls; otherwise, defense means you probably lose.

If AI armor are giving you serious trouble, you should try pillaging your own roads and railroads at the edge of your civilization to make sure that the armor can't attack your cities without sitting in the open for a turn, giving you a chance to attack them first.

If you are behind in technology, make sure to send some diplomats/spies to steal from the AI to get yourself up to date. If you can, send out some freight to demanding cities as far away as possible to get some extra cash and science. Don't go all out at the moment, however, because effective trading takes some practice, and a struggle for your civilization is not the best time to learn.

Trade is a game-breaker; if you do it early enough and consistently enough, you out-pace the AI in growth and technology progress to the point where they become annoying instead of a threat. See here for an example of the power of trade.

 

[Blackgaze]

Thanks again.

The A.I armor-road trick is nice, though I'm constantly attacking them with my other units, so the road is a downfall to me as well.

AEGIS problems are usually out in sea rather than attacking my cities, though coastals will help

The biggest problem... and you mentioned it... is behind technology. But the strange thing is, i'm #1 in science... and the highest tech out of all the countries. Why am I behind? Because it takes forever in terms of research to get SAMs

I never use trade other than low on food or build wonders. Could you explain to me how the trade resources to other cities works?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Trade works as follows:

A city builds a caravan.

That caravan is moved into another city, and establishes a trade route (automatic if you move it into an AI city).

You immediately get a delivery bonus. The game will tell you that you got a certain amount of gold. You will get the same amount of "beakers" (science production) as well (and, if you are in fundamentalism, the bonus is not subject to a 50% reduction). If you make a big delivery, you can check the science advisor and see the difference.

The delivery bonus depends on a number of things:

The higher the total base trade (number of arrows) of the cities involved, the higher the payout.
The farther away the cities are, the higher the payout.
Delivering to a foreign city doubles the payout.
Delivering to a city on a different island doubles the payout.
If either city has a superhighway, payout is increased by 50%; 100% if they both have them.
If both cities have airports, payout is increased by 100% if the cities are on different islands. I think it's 50% if they are on the same island, but I'm not positive.
If the caravan's commodity is demanded in the destination city, the bonus will be multiplied by a factor of 2-4, depending on the commodity. In the supply and demand screen, higher bonus commodities are in the right column, and, within a column, they become more valuable near the bottom of the list.

Also, certain technologies will reduce your bonuses over time:

Discovering Invention or Navigation (or playing more than 200 turns) will reduce your payment by 50%.
Discovering Railroad will reduce your payout by 1/3.
Discovering Flight will reduce your payment by another 1/3. (Your payment will fall by 50% between post-railroad and pre-flight deliveries, and post-railroad post-flight deliveries.)

Your delivery bonus for a single caravan/freight is subject to a maximum of 2/3 your total science cost for the current technology.

Both cities will also receive an ongoing trade route bonus (extra arrows to put to taxes, science and luxuries) which depend on base trade and whether the cities have Highways and/or airports.

Note: Roads and Railroads between cities also impact both the delivery bonus and the ongoing bonus. However, they only do so if they are set up in a specific path between the cities, which is quite hard to determine, so I don't recommend trying to get those bonuses. In any case, delivering offshore should get a larger bonus anyway.

Aside from learning to trade properly, the best advice I can give is to ignore all in game advice; it is usually wrong.

 

[Jokemaster]

The biggest problem... and you mentioned it... is behind technology. But the strange thing is, i'm #1 in science... and the highest tech out of all the countries. Why am I behind? Because it takes forever in terms of research to get SAMs

Which government are you using? Some governments, like Fundamentalism, are very bad for science.

Also, don't trust what the Science advisor says at the High Council. He's only good for comedy relief.

I never use trade other than low on food or build wonders. Could you explain to me how the trade resources to other cities works?

Trade is a bit complicated...

After you discover the Trade advance, you will notice that your cities will start having Supply and Demand in your City Screen. They will start demanding and supplying a variety of commodities (3 supply and 3 demand) With Trade, comes Caravans and you will be able to build commodity caravans and send them to other cities, for a gold/beaker instant bonus and an ongoing trade route (which increases trade arrows in trading cities) Delivering to a city that demands the commodity you're delivering (ex. silk) will yield a much higher payout (in gold/beakers but NOT in the ongoing trade route)

The other factors that influence trading is the amount of trade arrows in trading cities, whether you're trading with an AI or yourself (trading with yourself gives a 50% penalty in the payoff and ongoing trade route) whether the two cities trading are located on different continent (gives a 2x bonus to the payoff) and which techs are discovered (some techs decrease payouts, some others give units that increase it) Freight give a 50% higher payout than caravans.

Trade is difficult to set up, but when properly running it will give amazing returns, which will give you plenty of gold to rush more caravans (and plenty more stuff along with it) and an unbeatable scientific advance. With that, the game will end long before the AI has any opportunity to build planes.

EDIT: Basically, what Prof G just said.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

I never use trade other than low on food or build wonders.

Trade is arguably the most important and decisive feature of the game. Once you learn to use it, your games will change radically.

Others have already told you about Trade. There is plenty of information on this site to help you learn how to play the game. However, the best way to learn it is to join Game of the Month and see how others play.

 

[mackerel]

United Nations can give you the breathing room you need, if building it is an option. If you can make peace long enough to build up sufficient howitzers to take one city per turn, you'll have them begging for peace while you reduce their production capability quickly. It doesn't matter how many armor, missiles, and planes they have if you can catch them inside a city with a coordinated attack force. Once you have the momentum started, you can throw your reputation in the trash with sneak attacks, the UN will still force them to offer peace as long as they're willing to talk to you.

Not long ago I had the same problems. Learn trade from the masters here, it's worth the investment. It enables the better solution: overpower and outproduce them before it becomes so desperate.

 

[Maeda Toshiie]

So ICS + spamming caravans + democracy == lots of $$$ and beakers that will let you beat the AI in the tech race even at the highest difficulty?

 

[Magic_gorter]

Yes. It's also called 'power democracy'. ICS is not needed as long as you continue to build new cities. But ICS will give a big boost in the early game and makes things more easy.

 

[Ali Ardavan]

Democracy or not, trade is the most powerful feature of the game. Even in a war game and other forms of government trade gives you the extra edge you need by giving your tech a boost and more importantly provide you with the cash for rush buying units.

 

[Peaster]

Depends on how you want to win. If you just want to destroy the AI ASAP ["Early Conquest"] then all you need is ICS. You can outgrow the AI by about 1000BC and conquer them way before Trade and Democracy come along. Depends a little on the level and the map, but this is generally true even at Diety / Large.

If you prefer to build up a big impressive civilization, and a high score, you can use Trade and Demo for that. In my opinion, there is not much challenge in it, but it can be fun.

 

[stoferb]

The easy answer is that you stay ahead in tech. After 1750 AD everybody hates you, and will use any advantage against you. You have got to be prepared before that happens.

 

[elmenhorster]

had a game where A.I. was sending like 5-10 st.bombers every turn on my city. It was a coastal city, vet aegis held that city forever. Way to go A.I

 

[Peaster]

IIRC a player named Xin found a method of stacking units that was virtually unbeatable. The stack included an air unit [ which could not be attacked by ground units, but had to be replaced every turn ] and some other unit / combination, which I've now forgotten, that could not be defeated from the air [or at least not without huge losses].

 

[timtofly]

If you place a bomber over a stack, no ground unit can attack that stack and anything that has more HP than a fighter or even a jet will kill the attacking air unit. The AI air unit will attmept to attack the bomber, but the ground unit will be doing the defense. No ground unit, even artillery can attack the "stack" since the bomber is on top. You will need two bombers; one will be in a nearby city while the other one "sits" on the stack. The next turn the bombers rotate position. The stack can move forward as long as they do not go out of range of the bombers. Once you have stealth bombers, you can go further. As long as you have a SAM building in your city, any attacking air units will leave your city alone. I think the SAM will protect nearby cities like the SDI building, but not sure.

Back before I new better, I would have about 20 bombers and would starve cities out by rotating 10 of them per turn to keep the city's tiles from being worked until I could get the artillery in place. Doing this also kept any rebels from spawning, when the city was taken. The rest of the tiles had spies on them.

 

[stoferb]

I usually don't bother blocking off rebels. With a combination of howitzers, tanks and mech inf the AI doesn't stand a chance anyway. I take out defense with the howitzers, then capture the city with mech inf which will be it's token defense, then clean up the rebels with tanks. Every tank can take out 2-3 rebels so you don't need that many.