newbie question

WackenOpenAir said:
It depends on your skills, the starting position and luck.
With good starting position and good skills, the slingshot succeeds more often than it fails at deity level.
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66% success -- about what I landed at during that marathon of just doing slingshots -- is also success more often failure, so maybe something like that is actually what you were pointing to, and so we actually agree on the success rate, but disagree on its impact. :-)

Lo5
 
Norton II said:
Deity, huh? I guess my skills need more improvement, then. Either that or I need more luck. ;)
BTW, Wacken, I'm going to try that slingshot/ warrior upgrade tactic you described in your earlier post to see if I can pull it off. France would be the best civ for it, I think, provided I can trade for Pottery early on.
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Peronally, i think iroquis are the best civ in every possible aspect.

They have the strongest 2 traits
They have the strongest UU and with slingshot, you will have republic well in time that you don't have a despotic GA with them
They have the best starting techs.
 
Well... it could be argued that the best starting techs are Alpha and Masonry simply because they are the most expensive. But if your objective is the fastest slingshot, there is no question that the combination of Agri, Alpha and Pots is simply dynamite. This on top of all the other advantages that the Iros have.
 
WackenOpenAir said:
Peronally, i think iroquis are the best civ in every possible aspect.

They have the strongest 2 traits
They have the strongest UU and with slingshot, you will have republic well in time that you don't have a despotic GA with them
They have the best starting techs.
Click to expand...

I agree that the Iroquois are one of the best civs, if not the best, but I figured that France's faster workers would result in higher gpt, thus making both the slingshot and the mass upgrade easier. Maybe I was wrong about that, though; I tried France last night and was able to get the slingshot around 1200bc or so, but I could only get 13 towns built by 1000bc (just couldn't trade for pottery fast enough). That'll hurt me later.

Also, did you mean "strongest trait combination" instead of "strongest 2 traits"? I don't think commercial is that strong in itself; its main purpose IMHO is to make the other trait stronger (e.g., with the Iroquois, faster expasion translates into a lot more gpt). Moreover, I think the Mayan trait combo is stronger (though their UU is almost worthless--only good for starting a GA). If you disagree, though, I'd like to know why, since I'm more likely to be wrong than you are.
 
Don't forget, that Comm gives a 25% increase to your OCN, giving you more productive cities. That can be pretty powerful.

That being said, I don't think Comm is one of the two strongest traits. Definately Ag, but the rest have plusses as well. VC3/PTW I'd have to say Industrial is the strongest trait.
 
Industrious gives an early jump start to your empire. Comm is better over the long run. What is the crossover point? Probably sometime in the early ME. So, if you are going all out for an AE then industrious is probably better.

Also level and talent have something to do with. Noobs, who don't have enough workers and don't properly manage the ones they do have, need the industrious trait more. Similarly, OCN is higher at the lower levels so the need for the boost is less.

In case, they are certainly the number 2 and 3 traits. Agri is, of course, by far the best.
 
Abegweit said:
Industrious gives an early jump start to your empire. Comm is better over the long run. What is the crossover point? Probably sometime in the early ME. So, if you are going all out for an AE then industrious is probably better.

Also level and talent have something to do with. Noobs, who don't have enough workers and don't properly manage the ones they do have, need the industrious trait more. Similarly, OCN is higher at the lower levels so the need for the boost is less.

In case, they are certainly the number 2 and 3 traits. Agri is, of course, by far the best.
Click to expand...

You've got a point there. Once you've improved your core, industrious loses most of its value, while commercial increases in strength as your empire grows. An early boost might still have more long-run value, though.

I'd also agree that the better your worker management skills, the less you need the industrious trait. I play mostly on emperor and demigod, and I manage workers reasonably well, so industrious is nice but not necessary. Also, corruption is still manageable at these levels without commercial, but that trait can help.
 
In a science game, comm wins hands down. In a war game, it's much closer. As that's the kind I usually play I'm happy with either one :D Some very good players (like Tomoyo, I think) believe that comm is better than ind even in vanilla.

And it's no question that the Iros are the best civ for all the reasons that Wacken listed. If youda been playing Iros, you wouldn't have had this problem getting your hands on Pots. Actually, if I start with Alpha but not Pots I'll usually go after that before Writing. With a good start, I will even if I have neither. At Emperor you'll usually get the Sling even so.
 
I was never very sure about the strength of the commercial trait. But now i am playing a PBEM where i am commercial and my opponent is not.
We had fair starts i assume (both 4 food boni and started with 2 settlers) We both started on an island, knowing that we can only reach by navigation, so there was little to it than just breeding and building.
While i did a bit better on the population thingy, that was only a moderate difference like 55% vs 45% population at the moment i am talking about in my next scentence.

When i went to the F11 screen to check how my opponent was doing on commerce (GNP), the difference was astonishing. I was like out commercing him by 50%. I know, comm wasn't the only factor, but it must have been a big one.
 
Abegweit said:
In a science game, comm wins hands down. In a war game, it's much closer. As that's the kind I usually play I'm happy with either one :D Some very good players (like Tomoyo, I think) believe that comm is better than ind even in vanilla.

And it's no question that the Iros are the best civ for all the reasons that Wacken listed. If youda been playing Iros, you wouldn't have had this problem getting your hands on Pots. Actually, if I start with Alpha but not Pots I'll usually go after that before Writing. With a good start, I will even if I have neither. At Emperor you'll usually get the Sling even so.
Click to expand...

Well, even my science games have been war games lately, at least until the early IA. Using conquered land for ICS science farms speeds up research quite a bit, and industrious helps irrigate those lands faster. Of course, the favorite civs for HOF diplomatic and spaceship victories are neither commercial nor industrious, but that's a special case.

And you're right about the Iroquois. I just wanted to try the mass warrior-to-swordsman upgrade that Wacken referred to earlier but didn't see much point to it if I've got Mounted Warriors. I guess it's still a good way of strengthening your early military at a low cost in shields. I'll continue the game I started with the French but will try one with the Iros to compare.

As for the slingshot, I'm surprised at how easy it can be on emperor (there are 4 other comm civs in my game, including the Iros, but I beat them all to philosophy by a long shot). I was afraid to try it when I started playing emperor, but now I'm thinking of trying it on demigod (making sure there are no other civs that start with alphabet, of course).
 
Yes my terminology was not what the game uses. To me we are giving the AI a handicap or a spot. I guess to be correct I should have said a spot.

I was playing 9 ball the last few mornings an gave the 8 as a spot and handicaped myself by giving 2 games on the line in a race to 7. So I was thinking in that vain.

In any event they pay 20% less on Emperor. In a straight up game that is not too bad, in AWE it can be painful. Especially in a pangea map.
 
sorry i have some newbie question regarding civ 3 with no expansion...
what to build to get more money? tons of mines?
any guides to follow as i tends to build all kinds buildings in every city?
what terrain is suitable for irrigation?
 
if possible anyone post a save game for me so i can get to know better?
pls help... thanks alot~ =]
 
Welcome to CFC wishie!

Roads, rivers and certain bonus resources (e.g. gold, dyes etc) add commerce. Marketplace, bank, stock exchange will further multiply that commerce. If you play C3C you may also get 'Tourist Money' from Wonders built in that particular city. Mines will only add shields for production.

Don't build all kinds of buildings in your cities! Skip temples and don't build a courthouse in your capital. That doesn't do you any good at all. Totally corrupt cities won't need any buildings at all (perhaps a marketplace to deal with happiness issues). Someone will probably argue against that though.
 
wishie said:
if possible anyone post a save game for me so i can get to know better?
pls help... thanks alot~ =]
Click to expand...

You can go to the Succession Games forums and pick a game being played on vanilla and download one.
 
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