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Normal Deity Games

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by Fluphen Azine, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    You might be right. My present game is on a large map (the smallest size I've played for quite some time), and as you might guess the AI has made it a horserace. If Curtin was farther away, on say a ludicrous map size, I think I might have a decent chance of losing. But you're saying that wouldn't happen on a ludicrous map size :confused:.
    Spoiler :
    Ghandi1.jpg

    Spoiler :
    Ghandi2.jpg
     
  2. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    @BarbarianHunter

    Haven't looked into it.
    The way it used to be on Larger Maps other than Standard the AI couldn't deal with the Land compared to a human player ICSing.
    Like I say I could be completely wrong and the game might be harder on maps larger than Standard.
    I have no real experience with it for Civ VI.
    Just going off of past versions and experience with those.
    I know the game is different and still gets out of control processing it though.
    I seen you with massive cities and trade routes.
    On standard I feel like I have too much work to finish a game.
    I couldn't imagine playing those Ludicrous Maps or anything bigger than Standard.
    I know you and others enjoy it but I will just skim through your YouTube Videos and enjoy it that way.
    Thanks for uploading those by the way!

    ------------------------------------------------

    Quick Update on the England Game.
    I slowly took over some cities.
    Wiped out Amani.
    Forgot to DoF Genghis and now he is -131 for my Warmongering.
    He may denounce me soon.
    Backdoor Attack is possible but not sure he can do anything at this point.
    8 Techs behind the Leader.
    The rest of the AIs are far behind in Tech.
    Denmark wiped out Norway.
    F Her... gonna liberate him.
    My Army is too big now and can barely fund it.
    I have been losing Focus for about 15 turns now.
    Fun but it gets to be tedious.
    Forgot Engineers disappear once you build 2 Forts.

    England 155.jpg
     
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  3. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    I know there are some issues with the AI on marathon speed on any map size, but haven't played enough games on the ludicrous map size standard speed to intelligently comment.
    As for the large maps, I often play them because after jumping through all those hoops to gain competitive advantage over the AI, I like to extract a longer period of satisfaction for my troubles. For whatever the reason, so long as I don't play too much, I just don't seem to tire of conquering 2 or 3 AI cities per turn via 3-hitting them. This can go on for 30+ turns...

    I do the exact same thing with PotatoMcWhiskey, GameMechanic, Normul8r, etc...
    My own videos are the only ones I seem able to sit through consistently :lol:. I tried to watch CivTrader's ultraquick science victory series but always ended up starting a game and just doing whatever.
    I'm glad you enjoy them, they don't get a whole lot of views :).

    Looks to be a good defensible choke point there :ar15:.

    Too bad you're not playing Russia.

    Sounds like a job for the RAID card.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
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  4. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Played up to turn 188.
    For about 20 turns I just did whatever.
    Not even sure... click, click, click, click... etc etc.
    As you can see I haven't used Faith or Gold for some turns.
    Just keep clicking stuff.
    Not even trying on tech or culture tree.
    Just clicked on Commies and Rocket Artillery... nuff said.

    Ended up with 30 cities but gave one to Norway through Liberation.
    It will most likely flip back.
    Screw Denmark... course if Norway took over Denmark I would of killed him, liberated her.

    I think the game is over.
    You would think it is a race but we all know it isn't
    7 techs behind Robert.
    He is 100 SPT higher but I don't think they can stop the Warmongering.
    Someone once said the AI on Deity in Civ VI is not capable of wining pre turn 300.

    I may play it out tomorrow.
    Most of the Army is on the border of Mongolia.
    Time to Liberate Babylon.
    Now it is West Coast vs East Coast.

    Spoiler Turn 188 :

    England 188.jpg

    ----------------------------------------

    EDIT:
    Spoiler Turn 210 :

    I would think the game is over around turn 220 to 230
    36 cities now with 550 spt vs 210 spt. 4 techs behind.
    Tanks are just too strong. Rams not even needed.
    I brought 2 from the other side of the world so barely used them.
    Lost one that was unprotected.
    I went with Totalitarianism instead of Communism.
    3 More Capitals to take with little resistance.
    Kahn gives up an unconditional surrender as his Capital falls.
    This wasn't exactly the point.
    I was just testing how often Harvest is available.
    Current Record on 17 attempts: 13-4 (76.47% success rate)
    I was just playing it out for some fun but seems pointless now.
    Most of the fun is in the first 100 turns IMO.

    England 210.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  5. Hans Tork

    Hans Tork Chieftain

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    In normal deity games I try to get atleast 8-10 cities up by T100. Also I tend to restart any start with poor production. IMHO it is not worthwile struggling to get settlers/warrios/slingers up and still failing badly. I think CV with exploits is currently the easiest win on deity with any civ. Next up would be Nubia,Macedon and Sumerian early rush DVs. Rome in general can win every victory type on deity with proper terrain and start.

    Anyway here is my T269 Deity CV win with France using the exploit of newly created great works/arts. I was generating about 1390 Tourism even with minimal seaside resorts and chateaus.

    Spoiler :
    ok.jpg
     
  6. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    @Hans Tork

    Nicely Done.
    These days these guys are getting up 15 to 20 cities by turn 100.
    Most games I still struggle at that number... currently averaging about 11 by turn 100.
    I think I am still making build order mistakes along with timing of chops.
    Try not to search around this site finding games of the pros.
    You will see things like 3000 SPT and 2000 Tourism on turn 150 or so.
    You will see Culture Victories at Turn 100 to 150 with ease.
    You will find Domination Victories at turn 90 to 115.
    It can be detrimental to ones Ego.
    I am living proof of that statement.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  7. CornPlanter

    CornPlanter Emperor

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    Only if your ego is bloated too much. I guess such people don't watch NBA or pro football either... ;)
    I personally would uninstall any game immediately if I see the "pros" playing only as good as myself or just slightly better. It means the game has low skill ceiling and no depth whatsoever. Luckily, not the case with Civ6.
     
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  8. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    You make a good point.
    I just get a bit upset when I have played the game for years upon years and can't replicate some of those turn times.
    I'll be at turn 115 thinking "if Dan Quayle was playing this game he would be looking at the Victory Screen" :)
    However, I do realize something.
    Most of those finishes are from either cooked maps, reloads, replays, min-max strategies, and other abuse or exploits.
    I can take some solace in that line of thinking.
    Although some players are out there that can finish a game lightning fast with most starts, maps and standard settings.
    I highly respect anyone who can do that playing blind.
    I even have more respect for the person who plays with 100 rules and not abusing the AI who still finishes very fast.
    Lastly, I think it is clear that I have personal problems that others don't struggle with.
    I am trying to do better, learn, deal with them and grow up but its a process and I may never get to the end game so to speak.
     
  9. Hans Tork

    Hans Tork Chieftain

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    The same was true for Civ 5 also. There I could get a SV only by T260 while the pro`s like Acken/RezoAcken could do it under sub T200 or by T210. I already know that in Civ 6 many have done sub T150 victories in RF. However compared to Civ 5 where no overflow exploits were used(not even the Science overlfow bug) here a bit of the production overflow is used. However I do commend their work. I do not feel it hurts one`s ego rather it makes us learn and refine the game even more.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    That’s what is so good about GOTM, it taught me a lot.
     
  11. sandman_civ

    sandman_civ Warlord

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    Victoria please correct me if wrong. I would like to summarize what needs to be done in Civ 6 GS against Deity (or even Emperor onward) on continents or Pangaea on standard:

    - forget Religion as it's too many wasted turns chasing GP and a "wasted" early district (can there be a downside to this later? Loyalty issues?)
    - get Bronze Working soon and chop settlers for fast expansion - 10 cities asap then up to 20 - as the earlier you get them, the more they grow later. It seems to me with Loyalty that large cities are even more important then ever before.
    - any downside to settling your cities directly on resources?
    - any buildings important during early expansion?
    - if neighbor is too close then rush archers etc. and takes his cities as part of the expansion
    - chop for growth wonders like ToA and Pyramids - any others important?
    - after initial expansion, what are the district priorities? Industrial then campus?
    - do cities get shared Industrial district bonuses, or do all cities need all Industrial districts? I tend to build fully upgraded campuses where possible...
    - what policies to prioritize? Governments? I favor oligarchy, monarchy, then communism... seems to help a warlike game with keeping ahead of tech...
    - era points I cannot seem to time - if I get too many golden ages then it seems harder in the late game to keep up - should era points be paced better?
    - rush any wonders in the midgame transition?
    - endgame, if even reached, seems easy with aircraft, but if you don't kill everyone and win by then, then death robots are nuts.

    thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @sandman_civ

    -forget Religion as it's too many wasted turns chasing GP and a "wasted" early district (can there be a downside to this later? Loyalty issues?)
    I tend to forget it but sometimes it can be useful but yes, you need to be more efficient. Pantheon is the opposite, if you have get the harvest goddess that really helps.
    - get Bronze Working soon and chop settlers for fast expansion - 10 cities asap then up to 20 - as the earlier you get them, the more they grow later. It seems to me with Loyalty that large cities are even more important then ever before.
    Mining is key for chopping. Bronze working if you want encampment/early iron for a sword rush. Sword rushes are a little slowed but on the plus side the AI struggles with iron now. Mining is right, you do not have to take bronze next... many take animal husbandy/archery ... or others pottery / writing ... someetimes I will go celestial navigation for harbours, but then I am victoria after all.
    - any downside to settling your cities directly on resources?
    The only downside is missing a eureka, the upside is one less builder charge and you get to sell it earlier. Positioning for coliseum takes priority though.
    - any buildings important during early expansion?
    It does depend on situation. Sometimes a granary can be key. Certainly a monument is. Sometimes I struggle withy monument/settler or settler/monument. the former seems to get me my first government faster but naturally my second city slower. It is nice choices in VI are not as simple as V.
    - if neighbor is too close then rush archers etc. and takes his cities as part of the expansion
    This is a tricky one... I tend to get slingers and not upgrade them, move them away from my capital a bit but near a city and try and annoy ny neighbour into attacking... why? Because the defensive tactics inspiration is something to aspire to for speeding up feudalism. But you can easily lose the lead if you do not rush them, early archers is just one choice... and great when you can pull it off... terrain is the decider for me, open ground = archer rush... simples... jungle?... think again.
    - chop for growth wonders like ToA and Pyramids - any others important?
    Pyramids are really useful, coliseum is as useful if not more so. If going naval then the mausoleum is strong. The great library is useful if going cultural. Kilwa Kiwisani is a huge help for CV and SV if you can get 2 of the CS you need (or find useful) ... and Oracle is often underrated, especially if shared with a pingala GP promo. Ruhr can be handy as can Oxford university. The extra card ones like Big Ben, Potala Palace, Formidden city ... an dthe red one....(my mind is slipping) ... Great Zim is fun for a gold fest as long as you have a defensive spy. .. and for CV eiffel then Cristo. Eiffel allows an awful lot of sandy beach resorts.
    - after initial expansion, what are the district priorities? Industrial then campus?
    Industrial? nonono. A workshop costs 195 prod and gives you 2 back? why would you do that? A factory costs you 390 production and give 2 until powered... like why? You should be laying down districts but not finishing them early, waiting for builders to get to feudalism so they have more charges and chop is worth more then consider what to chop when. Campus is not to be underestimated and theaters are helpful and to a degree necessary for SV as well as CV. Gold from harbour/market sure, gold is good but only go for them early if you are keen in getting the medieval Fairies inspiration (4 trade routes)
    - do cities get shared Industrial district bonuses, or do all cities need all Industrial districts? I tend to build fully upgraded campuses where possible...
    Shared power plant bonuses yes but they are tier 3... you should be well on your way to victory by then... if noit then sure go for them if you like them... I am personally not impressed with power because Tier 3 buildings are not strong enough to warrant it. Others disagree... I am not the best in the world by any shot of imagination, way too impatient for that micro stuff.
    - what policies to prioritize? Governments? I favor oligarchy, monarchy, then communism... seems to help a warlike game with keeping ahead of tech...
    Do not underestimate autocracy. You get the wonder bonus and extra gold/prod/science/culture when it is early enough to count, as well as having 2 red card slots at a time when you need 2 red cards. The green card slot is fairly useless early apart from double envoy. I tend to like the oligarchic +4 combat and since you cannot stack the legacy card get your tier one government building up with Oligarchy then slot the legacy card and swap to autocracy... or vice versa... be flexible to your needs. You can always slot the double envoy card in the wildcard slot if required for the odd turn.
    - era points I cannot seem to time - if I get too many golden ages then it seems harder in the late game to keep up - should era points be paced better?
    Nope, greedy early = needy later... it actually works when you have to suffer a bit IMO, you do not want a faceroll do you? This way take your choice... often I miss the classic but get the medi or if I get the classic I go out of my way to avoid the medi unless on a roll... which to be fair you often are. You need to assess what era you are going to finish in and play accordingly... holding off goldens for sic hunt draconis for example.
    - rush any wonders in the midgame transition?
    Kilwa Kiwisani... check it out.
    - endgame, if even reached, seems easy with aircraft, but if you don't kill everyone and win by then, then death robots are nuts.
    Yeah... I struggle to get past tanks. It is GG at tanks or battleships normally if you are going dom and have the campi in place and suitably buffed with specialists.... Campus +2 adjacency +2 lib, +4 Uni = 8 .... 2 specialist = 12... a 50% increase, not bad over many cities. Push for the science CS... 3/6 is better than fighting for suze normally. Get to knights then tanks... I play victoria and are a little different... I get to redcoats early. slower but OK. There may be a time of tension butthe AI is crap and you will break their back, just be brutal... it is a game, not a nursery.

    2 years ago I always played peaceful... and a peacful CV on deity is faster than most other victories (Kandy relic CV is the exception) but the game just does not punish warmongering or wide play adequately so that is the general preference the above is written with in mind.
    All just my views others have equally valid onces that differ.
    I play as much on emperor as deity as I find deity limits your variety a bit, especially in opening moves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
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  13. Cherenkov

    Cherenkov Chieftain

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    For GS deity all you need is a start with horses and iron nearby which isn't always available.
    - If you do then you can get by with just two expansion cities, one campus/encampment and expand from there with the AI being so brain dead.
    - I had a deity game recently with Alexander where I only had room for two expansion cities and had horses but no iron.
    - Luckily my 1st neighbor had iron so I created four Hetairoi and took his capitol to upgrade my warrs. Upgraded two Hetairoi to knights but a Hetairoi near a general is already so good and money was tight.
    - Scotland was my next target. At the time I invaded him he was the science leader so I was a bit nervous. However no worries because...

    This is how bad the AI is in GS(see T99 screenshot). T99 and Scotland still has warriors. Why? Look at this screenshot and you can see an iron tile still not worked to the SE near Edinburgh. Tons of worked food tiles of course for me to pillage :mischief: After taking Scotland I wondered why he was leading in science because all his cities were crap with low production and +1 campuses. If I had started a 2nd army and gone west while I was attacking Scotland I probably could have finished a lot sooner.

    - In the end Netherlands gave me several wonders and religion so why bother to build them?

    By the time I finished at T205 I had 1k science, +192FPT, several wonders, etc and I wasn't even doing a DV properly by sniping capitols. I took way more cities I really didn't need.

    They really need to fix this. I've seen other games where the deity AI does have iron/horses but still hasn't upgraded. :shake:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 7, 2019
  14. wutface

    wutface Chieftain

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    so after this…
    Spoiler :
    20190215094814_1.jpg

    i dcided to try some easy-mode
    Matthias
    Spoiler :
    20190307194609_1.jpg

    easy enuf :lol:
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Playing deity with Alex is easy.
    Try with Canada
    @wutface, that English start is fine BTW, I would gladly play it.
     
  16. wutface

    wutface Chieftain

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    epic speed
    so you looking for at least ~60 turns of doing nothing except scouting with seafaring builder and selling resources, only upside is that you can sell and insta-DOW without any fear of retaliations :)

    but yes it's playable, even better then some starting points victoria gets from time to time… like mix of completely flat tundra and desert without fresh water… ha-haha-hahaha
    *crying*
     
  17. Cherenkov

    Cherenkov Chieftain

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    True that Alex is easy. If I have time I might just try Canada domination. Sounds like the worst civ right now from what I have been reading. No surprise wars will make it interesting...

    So you can still declare other types of war with Canada right? Looks like a possible strategy is to spam cities quickly and hope they get converted by religion then you can declare a Holy war?

    EDIT: Just realized it is easy enough to just denounce them and declare a formal war. Ok so the lack of surprise war is not that big of an issue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    No, just a very vanilla civ.
     
  19. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    The lack of surprise war (being on the receiving end, that is) totally helps Canada... they are not really Vanilla as you can get away with all sorts of outrageous openers with them. If war is your thing, you can make sure the war happens on your own terms when you are ready so if that means delaying that first slinger in favor of better tiles/expanding then Canada is actually very good--as long as they avoid the tundra start.
     
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