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November Gauntlets

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by aafritz17, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Prince Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    November gauntlets are visible on the HOF Gauntlet tab.

    PLEASE DO NOT MISS THAT THE MINOR IS ONE-CITY-CHALLENGE!!! (It's a Chieftain "Any Leader" culture game.)

    The Major is immortal, science, Darius on Terra. There are two entries on the table (from 2013 and 2015), so medals are in play.
     
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  2. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    I tried Egypt for the OCC minor. It took me until t190 to win. The starting land was not good enough and the growth was only average. Still I had fun. :)
     
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  3. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Prince Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    How much warring did you have to do?
     
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  4. Nizef

    Nizef Prince

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    I didn´t perhaps "have to" go to war. However, every time an AI is settling near me, I get angry. :) In the Egypt game, I killed Elizabeth (3 cities) and crippled Rome significantly. After that no AI tried to settle too close to me... Otherwise I tried to play peacefully.
     
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  5. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    The quick speed, large size, and Ice Age map on the minor makes a conquering strategy to destroy high culture civs suboptimal. The unit limit with the OCC also hurts.

    I tried Brazil a bit, but exploration was too slow to get tourism going soon enough. I tried Babylon to tech to Archaeology as fast as possible and that worked a lot better- however, the exploration was still an issue.

    Solution: Kamehaha. Beat the Babylon time pretty well even with a runaway culture civ. Played another Polynesian game and got a win in the T120s. I think it will be hard to beat Polynesia unless you get a great map/fast exploration with a good tech/culture civ. Kamehaha can start racking up tourism with all civs quicker than anyone.
     
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  6. fiddlesticks

    fiddlesticks Chieftain

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    I tried Darius in the Major and wound up with a turn 273 science win. The game hinged early on capturing Mecca for a great second capital city once I built Petra there. At the end of the game I probably could've shaved off 10-20 turns if I had done better at gaining friends and signing research agreements.
     

    Attached Files:

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  7. billybgame

    billybgame Prince

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    As far as the Minor goes, boy, I must need some educating. Turn 120? Yikes. Granded I am just trying to fill out my VVV and trying Maria and Portugal. My main issue in oh so many Culture efforts is one or two civs that I just can't dominate in culture/tourism. Had a good game going, but Askia was just remote enough that I could never build a trade route. Trade route are mystifying to me, sometimes....seems I should be able to connect to them somehow, but no. This is the same issue I've had in many a failed culture effort. A far away civ with no trade method. Or, not meeting them early enough. This game didn't have that. But, am at turn 220, with Askia at 93%...but it's been painstaking. Everyone else, save Augustus more recent, has long since been dominated.

    I realize the method of militarily eliminating a pesky culture rival. But, recognizing it early enough is the key. I probably should have wiped out Askia 50 turns ago, in retrospect.

    I've got 100 tourism at 1900...so I think this has been a fine effort. Any tips would be appreciated. I just think in this OCC the type of map is most important of all, to allow for trade routes with every civ. I was able to meet everyone pretty early, but this map just didn't lend to long reaching trade routes.
     
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  8. Zlither

    Zlither Chieftain

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    Possible good strategy, though zenmaster's method probably better.
    Hopefully it has useful tips.

    In advanced settings, set to Hot / Dry (Hot dry ice age???) to get marginally better land. Ideally salt/cows/deer/wheat & dessert or tundra.
    Also set land masses to wide continents and low sea level to drastically raise the chance that all civs are on the same land mass or reachable only via Optics
    Also set Ignore Start Bias (and do not include desert start bias leaders).

    Reroll if not a good start or you can't find everyone by ~ turn 80, maybe earlier.

    Pantheon: Sun God if good dirt, otherwise Dessert/Tundra/+1 from Camps/God King

    First build: at least 2, maybe 3-4 scouts... as...
    Up until ~~50, abuse all neighbors - steal settlers and workers even if you do not need them. Pillage. They wont generate as much culture. As long as you stop by then, they can still be friendly later on. Sell lux's in peace deals, even if your only copy. You'll have excess happiness.

    Pick Attila and Genghis as opponents (maybe not Rome - they seem to do well on these maps if not next to you) to also hassle neighbors.

    Buy an early worker if you can't steal one really quickly. Single largest food source.
    Other purchases: Ducal Stable, Workshop. Possibly Opera house.

    Poland ... Tradition complete, then, since this is Chieftain the right side of Aesthetics, in particular Fine Arts to turn all that excess happiness into even more policies (also get the early artist)
    Religion - Tithe, Sacred sites for finale, though the Hermitage +5 tourism also good (been thinking that Science may be better- but you get early tourism for many turns. not sure)

    Temple of Artemis -> G. Library -> Stonehenge. If you don't get Stonehenge, restart as you want it for the extra GE - you want GE's more than GS's.

    After the main branch of Religion, finish Aesthetics, then Liberty. Do in this order as [1] you wont need the GE until later and [2] the bonus producing tourism buildings show up at about the time you finish Aesthetics..
    (maybe leaving off Religion and finishing Aesthetics makes more sense.)

    The timing should work out that you get 1 natural GE early(save to near end), then one from Liberty and 1 or 2 faith bought.
    To do the faith buying, keep a civilian (worker, missionary or inquisitor - though GS/GE can also work) in your city at *all* times after you get the second GP. This will keep the next GP from spawning - keeping the faith for GEs (and after that GA/GW). You can get > 2000 faith by Archaeology this way.
    (suggest setting the auto-purchase to missionary in case a trade route forces a one turn lapse of a civilian in the city)
    Then use GE's to build buildings that come w/ GA/GWs
    Finally, any extra faith (dessert, tundra start) -> GAs.

    Open Exploration if needed for the extra building.

    Always head to Archaeology which has another GA bldg. You should win before this, but spam archaeologists if needed.
    Use the 2-3 GS that you do get to bulb Arch or the techs just before it.

    Due to the quick-speed bug, don't bother sending GMs except in passing.

    Finished 129, but if I hadn't erroneously thought I'd found everyone when I hadn't, it would have been around 117. Suspect one of the good players can do it ~110.


    Note that Attila can also do pretty well (due to extra production and default start), but he works better with more cities.
    Note that I sent the civilian-in-city trick to the Exploits list, and people seemed ok with it. In this challenge it probably only makes a few turns difference.
     
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  9. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Great strategy! I was completely unaware of the "civilian in city stops Great Prophet spawning" There is always something new to learn in this game!
     
  10. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    This seemed weird as in I thought I would have noticed this before. Just tried it. It does not work at all. 3rd GProphet spawned in my one city even with a worker camped in it.

    Are you sure it is not just that you had entered the Industrial era at that point?
     
  11. Zlither

    Zlither Chieftain

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    Vadalz was able to reproduce - see https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/banned-exploits-question-answers.420542/page-6 . It's possible to save up over 2000 in faith.
    That set of posts also includes a screen shot with an example.

    If the unit leaves the city for any reason (GE being expended) you have to move civilian in before end of turn. There must be one in each city.

    I had noticed over the years that missionaries sometimes come into existence in cities other than the holy city. Figured out that it happened when there was a civilian in the holy city.

    Also, it does not apply to GP's from HS.
     
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  12. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Thanks for the info! Very nice observation. A nice way to avoid that unwanted Great Prophet before Scientific Theory if you have the wherewithal. If you are playing wide though, it may be hard to have enough noncombatants to fill the cities; workers will probably want to be mining and farming.
     
  13. aafritz17

    aafritz17 Prince Hall of Fame Staff Supporter

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    Hey, all, I finally have a permanent place to set up my computer! (Since we moved to this much smaller home in August, I have been setting up temporarily on my wife's piano bench, then tear the computer down, set it up a couple days later, yada yada yada.) So, I'll be able to be more engaged.

    Also, I think @Noble Zarkon WILL BE DOING AN UPDATE VERY SOON!

    I will have new gauntlets in a couple of days. I have extended these through 12/10, so to catch any that came in recently (or that will come in very very soon...)

    Thank you all for your extreme patience. I truly appreciate it.
     
  14. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Happy Holidays to all!
    Hope everyone is safe and happy during these difficult times!

    With the extension of the Gauntlets, I gave the Minor a try using Poland as Zlither did. Poland on Chieftain indeed rakes in the Social Policies so quickly that their tourism can outshine other civs, even overcomimg the Polynesian early civ discovery advantage. I got a T116 Cultural win that could have easily been 110 as he predicted if I had found the last farflung unknown civ just a bit earlier

    Observations:

    - I could not replicate the "prevent Great Prophet spawning" mentioned by Zlither. There were a couple turns where I swapped out civilians midturn, but every turn I had a civilian inside the 1 city at turn end. I am guessing that a civilian can never ever leave the city and that the AutoMissionary creation has to be implemented as Zlither said then for the effect to happen? It did not affect my game, as the first "extra" Great Prophet came out early enough to convert a high culture civ nearby and get the Shared Religion bonus quickly

    -- For Religion, I went Divine Inspiration, then Religious Art. You are building so many Wonders on Chieftain OCC that the Divine Inspiration boosts your faith greatly. The 5 Tourism from the Hermitage is huge later on. Going Itinerant Preachers to spread religion to the other civs for the Shared Religion Tourism Modifier helped a lot.

    -- For SP, I ignored Piety completely as 2 Tourism from Sacred Sites did not seem worth the multiple policies. I wanted Religious Art rather than faith bought buildings. Tradition->Aesthetics-> Liberty(for the free GE) worked well for me. You can Science up to Architecture (for Hermitage/Uffizi) early enough fine without Rationalism with the GL, Oxford, and bulbing Great Scientists.

    --- The Great Engineers are indeed, as Zlither stated, a key to speed the wonders that can house Great Artists (Sistine Chapel and Uffizi in my case) Otherwise you have Great Artists sitting around not creating works for Tourism for too long. I did a try without the natural GE early and no Liberty and the lack of a Great Engineer hurt a lot. Zlither nailed it that Great Engineers are really important.

    -- Good city situation on the open seas allowing for Trireme exploration is vital. Otherwise, it is very hard to discover the other civs early enough. Barbarians and Sea travel slow down land units too much.

    -- Having the highest culture civs within trade route distance is REALLY helpful to getting the trade route tourism modifier and winning more quickly. That is what led to the T116 win as I had 120% tourism modifiers with the top two culture civs.

    Great choice of Poland by Zlither! I think my time can be bested with faster exploration and better play, so good luck if you try!
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2020
  15. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Hello and happy holidays to all! :)

    I haven't played Civ for a long time, so my first attempt for the Minor was a bit sloppy, but I think the strategy overall was fine. I chose Brazil and focused on science (Great Lib > NC > Oracle first, then Petra and +food wonders).

    Spoiler T67 :
    20201226142027_1.jpg


    I went Tradition opener - Liberty to free Worker - finish Tradition - Aesthetics. The idea was to win with a Liberty Golden Age. I like the early worker as well, particularly on a map with that much Salt. I bought a second worker as soon as I could and didn't steal any from the AIs or CSs.

    In the late game I made a couple of critical mistakes:

    - I should've started the final Carnival much sooner with the Liberty policy instead of waiting to time it with a natural GA. There were still 26 turns of Carnival left to go on turn 104
    - I was too slow to realize you don't need Printing Press here and researched Metal Casting and Machinery for no reason

    My religion was: Tithe, +10% food pantheon, +15% food follower, +5 tourism from Hermitage, +30% range. A couple of religious CSs provided me all the faith I needed this game.

    Spoiler T104 :
    20201226153455_1.jpg


    I'm confident sub-100 is doable (it definitely was on this map), but I'm not sure about sub-90. A lot of things would need to go right for that to happen.
     
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  16. zenmaster

    zenmaster King Supporter

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    Great game! Way to max out the growth. Excellent Brazil strategy!

    Brazil seems like a natural for this gauntlet, but getting a good growth, good exploration map eluded me for a bunch of tries.

    Good lord, though, is this an amazing map... a 4-salt, Marble, Petra capital? Religious AIs able to be hooked up for faith? Looks like pretty open seas for exploring too.The perfect map for pretty much every victory type, barring an El Dorado too. There is almost no chance anyone is beating this time without something close to this map, mistakes or no. :) So much extra food and hammers, the Marble wonder bonus... I would have liked to see what could have been done with a Science victory in a non-OCC game on this map!
     
  17. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Thanks! Yeah, it's a fantastic map. It's kind of a shame to get such a map on your first try when you're just figuring things out, rather than when you already know what to do.

    I got another T104 finish time on a worse map with worse luck with the AIs as well:

    - I had only one AI on my starting continent, whereas in the first game I had the opportunity to send trade routes and missionaries to culture leaders
    - Not a single AI made a Great Work of Writing, so I got no theming bonus from the Great Library

    In both games Genghis took forever to research Writing and that delays Open Borders, so I'm not including him next time.

    Spoiler Victory screenshot :
    20201227143002_1.jpg
    Some refinements I made were:

    - Even heavier focus on exploration. Philosophy (GL) - Optics - Mathematics tech order. The starting warrior and 3 scouts all went swimming ASAP. Ignored Bronze Working and Masonry to reach Astronomy faster. I think I'd found all the AIs on turn 78.
    - Not focusing on religion: bought a shrine for Sun God, then built HS to found a religion very late in the game for +5 tourism from Hermitage. Can't get Borobudur and all the good stuff without Petra/Salt's massive production
    - Didn't plant an Academy this time. 2 bulbs + Oxford for quick Architecture is the better play. Sold my university after reaching Architecture and switched to production focus
    - Better CS tribute management

    These games are quick so I'll try at least once more. Sub-100 is the goal.

    ***
    Update:

    I rolled a Pangaea and won on turn 88. Not having to research Compass and Astronomy speeds things up nicely.

    Unfortunately it's not HoF eligible as I made a stupid mistake and reloaded a save to correct it. I was timing a GS spawn and Oxford for turn 76, and I switched research from Banking to some low tier tech on turn 75. For some reason I thought the game would've allowed me to bulb Banking and then choose Architecture as my free tech, but it just doesn't work like that. Can't open the tech tree and select a tech to bulb, you have to pick a free tech first.
    Spoiler T88 victory :

    20201227211558_1.jpg
    I suppose I should've oxforded Banking and bulbed towards Architecture to get it 5-6 turns later, but it wouldn't have been a sub-T90 game.

    Besides that blunder, the game went really well. One more change I made was buying an early Temple to slowly get a religion without investing any production into HS. Another way to do it is to select a faith pantheon, but in that case you lose Sun God and slow down early city development, delaying Education and everything else.

    I missed Temple of Artemis which went on turn 37, but my city growth was fine without it, so I wonder if it's worth building at all. NC, Oracle, Petra and HG are more important, so ToA has to be a pretty late build, which makes it questionable in a 90-turn game. Plus you have to squeeze in Parthenon, Writers' Guild and preferrably National Epic before Education as well...
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  18. vadalaz

    vadalaz Emperor

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    Got a HOF-eligible T92 win now. Slower than my previous attempt, but this time I didn't roll a Pangaea and faced stronger AI culture. I made yet another silly mistake: deleted my University before finishing Oxford, which likely added 1 turn to the finish time.

    This was a really interesting map. I was isolated on my starting continent, but it had El Dorado which allowed me to buy a Granary and a Warrior. With 3 CSs nearby I managed to get lots of tributes and bought a couple of Triremes to find out where I should be sending my scouts. I didn't research Astronomy and was able to find all the AIs with just Optics. There wasn't a shallow water path to the east, so it took a long time to find the last two AIs.

    Spoiler T25 :
    20201229100753_1.jpg
    No real change to the gameplan: focusing on growth early, GL -> NC first, then after Education switch to heavy production focus, double GS bulb + Oxford to Architecture. Same policies as before, but this time I didn't need the Golden Age policy from Liberty.

    Spoiler T92 :
    20201229122704_1.jpg
     

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