Octopus Overlords on Archipelago

[BiffQJ]

Ok, so maybe it was a fluke, but OO on an achipelago seems a bit exploitative. Granted, an early merryman (I was playing as Perpentach) got Orthus Axe, but I was able to take that merryman, upgrade him to a drown and then he eventually became a level 19 eidolon with water walking. I had a lot of money too, so instead of building stygian guards, I just built merrymen and two turns later had stygian guards who could walk on water. With the exception of Saverous, every other unit of my offensive force could walk on water (including Hemah) and aside from Hemah and Saverous, all of my units ended up having the cannibalize promotion and march at the same time. It seemed a bit too easy. I may have been at too easy of a level, but maybe the water walking promotion shouldn't transfer?

Anyone else have similar experiences? It was fun, but I almost felt bad for the AI...

 

[Maniac]

Water Walking is the biggest reason to build Stygian Guards!
Anyway, I'd say the problem lies with the AI, not the unit itself. Stygian Guards upgraded from Drown also have Fire Vulnerability, plus the Undead and Demon promotions, so you have a couple spells and promotions to counter them rather easily.

 

[loki1232]

Ok, so maybe it was a fluke, but OO on an achipelago seems a bit exploitative. Granted, an early merryman (I was playing as Perpentach) got Orthus Axe, but I was able to take that merryman, upgrade him to a drown and then he eventually became a level 19 eidolon with water walking. I had a lot of money too, so instead of building stygian guards, I just built merrymen and two turns later had stygian guards who could walk on water. With the exception of Saverous, every other unit of my offensive force could walk on water (including Hemah) and aside from Hemah and Saverous, all of my units ended up having the cannibalize promotion and march at the same time. It seemed a bit too easy. I may have been at too easy of a level, but maybe the water walking promotion shouldn't transfer?

Anyone else have similar experiences? It was fun, but I almost felt bad for the AI...

Well many civs/religions have game options that make them "exploitative".
Like lanun on this map would have been nearly as bad.
Or doviello on a raging barb pangaea.

 

[vyapti]

I agree that it's a weakness in AI. Anyone with a single OO city can spread the religion and do the same thing.

 

[Four u]

Just played the Lanun on Archipelago map.
There no other reason to play Lanun. What do you want?
Play OO or Lanun on desert maps?
I dont really understand your point...

1/3 of the civs are specialised for a type of terrain:
desert, tundra, sea, etc

If you dont use them on their special terrain they simply not fun.

 

[xienwolf]

Why is Doviello on Raging Barbs Pangea worse than Sheelba? Sheelba's rather early hero can simply claim any Barbarian city as hers, allowing nearly instantaneous empire expansion (especially on Labrascum)

 

[Calavente]

yep, and nearly instant dead economy (just kidding, I never tried it)

 

[zxcvbnm]

And their wolf riders own other civs.
On inland sea Clan game I could keep all but one civ (yes, there were more than one enemy) completely controlled as they had nothing to fight my 80xp wolf riders with any chance of victory. I simply ran through their lands as I wanted.

 

[princecharles]

Right now I have my own island map as perpentarch. Gotta say, building cheap wariors, sacrifising them for drowns, and then upgrading those into to Stygian Guards with water walking is great fun. Not only am I wiping out civs on land, but whenever they try to send a fleet towards my lands, the guards simply smash it to peices. I even have an army of 12 guards that got the extra movement bonus, which means I have a two-move amphibious unit that currently has the strongest attack in the game. So, I can see how you can consider them a little bit op'ed.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, till someone gets naval units which can compete on equal footing. Then the enhanved move gives them a nice advantage to turn the tide.

Brings something to mind though: Why can't Naval units get special promotions (or Promotion Line) for fighting Water-Walking units? Seems to be common enough in this world that people would have developed counter-measures. (Maybe a shock style line that is a Level 1 and 2 boost against any non-naval unit).

 

[princecharles]

Perhaps an anti-jesus gun?

 

[Keilden]

Perhaps an anti-jesus gun?

Yarggh ther be one of te waterwalkers again. Load the Anit-Jesus Guns yargh

 

[Bad Player]

Yeah it's a bit odd that a huge powerful boat with guns can't take down a group of dudes trying to attack them with swords...

edit: Although water walking might be swimming underwater without risk of drowning so I guess dudes with swords could keep hacking away at the hull without the ship being able to fight back.

 

[TravellingHat]

May I recommend if you're facing such a force, have some arcane barges or fireball/ring of flames casting units accompany your fleet. For all the many advantages of the Drown and their upgrades, they're vulnerable to fire. In the immortal words of Cpl Jones from "Dad's Army" (1970's Brit comedy, for the uninitiated): "they don't like it up 'em".

"Yar, there be them blasted water walkers again."
*whoosh* *ka-boom*
"Yar, anyone for crispy seaweed?"

Having said that, I rarely* see the AI use water walkers as an active marine defence force. OO is my favourite religion, so it's usually me launching death from the waves on the poor saps who are unfortunate to be in my way. That said, I'd fully expect an OO player in MP to make full and deadly use of these excellent units, so have your tinderbox ready.

* To qualify this, I have been amphibiously attacked by Speakers, but only once.

 

[onedreamer]

Ok, so maybe it was a fluke, but OO on an achipelago seems a bit exploitative. [...] Anyone else have similar experiences? It was fun, but I almost felt bad for the AI...

Yes, in BtS, play Portugal in a Terra map...
Just don't play it in a Highlands one though.

It is normal that Civs (or religions, in FFH2) have advantages on certain map types, especially if they are not balanced maps, like Archipaelago (clearly sea based), or Highlands (in FFH2, the dwarven paradise).