[R&F] One thing is missing from Loyalty system imo and can it be solved

[Revolutionist_8]

Hello my friends, I hope you're doing well!

I'm a huge fan of the Loyalty system, however in my humble opinion one thing is still missing from it.

When a civ gets wiped out, the only way they can resurface again is if someone liberates them by conquering those cities. Even if the city rebel, at most it will be a Free City and remains that. I think it's a missed opportunity and if a conquered and subjugated nation could declare independence by the Loyalty system would make the game even more dynamic and exciting.

What do You think? Would it be too much (for example for warmonger penalties)? Good idea? Bad idea? Maybe only Capitals should have this?

There are some parameters in GlobalParameters (ownership_identity_pressure_capital_to_domestic_city and 5 others after it) that are set to 0 by default and I'm not sure what they do.

Does someone maybe know what are they doing exactly?

 

[Victoria]

There does seem to be an accumulated link to loyalty with free cities but only seems to accumulate when free which is a bit odd. Having the ability of the free city being able to flip back to the original dead civ is in fact in place but just not strong amd considering the city flipped in the first place often means it’s just not going to go backwards.
I’ll have a look at those Parameters when I get a chance. I did not see them a few weeks ago so maybe they are new.

 

[Revolutionist_8]

I'd greatly appreciate it, thank you!

 

[Duuk]

I'm not certain, but I could have sworn I saw a free city that was previously a city state flip back to being a city state, so I believe the mechanic exists.

It would be nice to see Free cities function to either restore old civs or, if at the fringes of other civs (where civ-specific loyalty pressure would be low) to spawn a "new" civ. I agree it's a missed opportunity.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I'm not certain, but I could have sworn I saw a free city that was previously a city state flip back to being a city state, so I believe the mechanic exists.

I thought I saw this, too, but then realized that Poundmaker had captured the Free City and immediately liberated it. Yay, Poundmaker!

 

[Victoria]

I'm not certain, but I could have sworn I saw a free city that was previously a city state flip back to being a city state, so I believe the mechanic exists

Here I manually flipped a city state to try
There is an extra column for a free city with +10 pressure. (the +1 is a monument)

T141

T142 & 143

T144 145

T146 148

T149 151

So 11 turns and it has not flipped back

I'll try and capture it rather than just flip it and see what happens then

 

[Archon_Wing]

I think another problem is even if you resurrect another civ they will immediately collapse due to loyalty unless you liberate a bunch.

 

[Victoria]

hmmmm

I upped my greek pressure to tip the scales and now its going to turn Mapuche

 

[Victoria]

Nope... I know the pic may look the same but taking a CS and letting its loyalty drop does not help either. Someone must have taken it .. or possibly been given it?

 

[Duuk]

Bummer. I agree that this is a missed opportunity. Would be nice if free cities had a 10 turn countdown and then either joined a civ or re-formed (if they were a previous civ/city state) or formed a new civ if loyalty pressure from nearby civs wasn't sufficient to flip it.

Again, bummer.