Openings

stormbind

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I've been doing rather better with tips from luceafarul, and can now consistently beat the computer with King's Gambit, or an extended version thereof, which I include as an image below.

However, I am failing abysmally when trying Sicilian (any version), English (any version), or King's Indian Attack.

English, for example, requires immediate tempo to stand up to the attention it draws from the computer: I am forced to push b3, d3, Bb2, and both Knights to fend off vultures including Black Queen and her Bishop friends. Basically, I find myself constricted with no 'projection power' :(

Can you suggest any alternatives that would be easy for me to utilise effectively? Here's my current preferred opening..
 

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well, there's nothing wrong with fianchettos or even double fianchettos, but that h3 bishop is VERY awkwardly placed in my opinion. I guess you could say it's better than g2 in the sense that on g2 it's biting on granite with no scope- but what's it hit on h3, and what pressure can it put on black. Moreover if black plays d6 or d5 sometime in the opening, you'll have to put it on g2. Also your queenside fianchetto looks a look awkward too, because if you put the bishop on b2, e3 is a bit of a gap...not that it could be immediately exploited but it doesn't look right...even if you have d4 safely covered, and the rest of the dark squares. the dark squares still look weak to me.

it isn't bad just tweak it a little and set your move order so you know the order of your setup against whatever black plays. I used to play stuff like this- i'd play a larsen (1. b3) once in awhile, d4/b3/c4/Bb2 kind of systems in Queen's Gambits (I don't remember how I got into it but I think it was like a Catalan or a Catalan)...arg, I should get back into chess.

the queen or bishops...well, that sounds like your having color complexes, and the queen and bishop help exploit it, probably in combination with knight outposts. don't make holes if possible, try to avoid weak squares.

if it's in the opening your having problems with black's marauding queen- queen moves in the opening (as a general principle, though broken all the time, it isn't steadfast), are usually met by developing moves that attack the queen. like if the game was to go 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Qh4, Nf3 is the sort of thing you'd play. rudimentary bad example but that's all I can come up with. I have to go.
 
The h3 bishop pins back the knight commonly sitting on f6 or h6, slowing down their deployment. Having the Bishop there feels more influencial. If at g2, it can do nothing to deter the knight and actually becomes a target for it.

Re: Vulture Queen: Indeed, but with Sicilian and English openings, the pawns are heavilly commited to a certain structure before the Queen appears, making it exceedingly hard to cover all bases.
 
stormbind said:
I am failing abysmally when trying Sicilian (any version), English (any version), or King's Indian Attack.
:hmm: You are white in all those examples, right? What lines do you prefer against the Sicilian? What formation does the computer use against KIA?
stormbind said:
English, for example, requires immediate tempo to stand up to the attention it draws from the computer: I am forced to push b3, d3, Bb2, and both Knights to fend off vultures including Black Queen and her Bishop friends. Basically, I find myself constricted with no 'projection power' :(
English is quite a subtle opening, and the best thing with it and one reason that I for one love it is its flexibility. But I can't really see why you can't keep strange ladies and devious clergy-men out of your realm. Again I am curious on what formation the computer adapts.
stormbind said:
Can you suggest any alternatives that would be easy for me to utilise effectively? Here's my current preferred opening..
Here are some very good advice:
Understand the openings you play! Initially you shouldn't bother so much with swatting up tons of variations, but do by all means learn the basic ideas about your openings. Play through some games with great masters, study what their aims are, what middle-game positions they opt for.
Play open games! To aquire good positional understanding, you should start with openings like Giouco Piano, Four Knight's, Two Knight's, Scotch (a terrific beverage as well!) because they are simpler in the strategical sense (this does not in any way imply that they are inferior, of course) and teaches you to play with the pieces.
Play as many different openings at possible! In order to be a good civ3 player you should master playing with e.g Babylon, Zululand, China, India, Byzantium and Inca, on all sorts of map. In chess you should aquire a basic understanding on wild gambits, open positions, closed positions etc,etc. It seems to me that you are about to fall into the trap that is called to play the system. This means that you will adapt the same pawn formation in every game possible and play it the same way. The danger with this is that it might kill your imagination, diminishing your scope and finally make chess a dull game. In that way you will also get a better idea about what is your strengths and weaknesses and you can:
Play openings that suits you! Do you like to attack? Do you mind sacrificing material for the initiative? Do you prefer a quiet position and slowly build up an initiative on the queen - side? Do you like endgames?
I can use myself as an example. In chess I am the "builder"-type. I like long-range strategic plans and fixed pawn formations. I only go for direct attack on the king if the position demands it. I also don't like to sacrifice if I can't see any concrete compensation. So therefore I like openings like English, Reti, Catalan, QGE, and with black French, Caro-Kann, King's Indian, Dutch stonewall and the Hedgehog.I don't play Evans Gambit, King's Gambit or that sort of things except in 5-minutes games.

soviet said:
well, there's nothing wrong with fianchettos or even double fianchettos, but that h3 bishop is VERY awkwardly placed in my opinion. I guess you could say it's better than g2 in the sense that on g2 it's biting on granite with no scope- but what's it hit on h3, and what pressure can it put on black. Moreover if black plays d6 or d5 sometime in the opening, you'll have to put it on g2.
Very good observations. :goodjob: The bishop belongs on g2, where it influences the centre and is less exposed than on h3. The bishop might be biting into granite for the moment, but that will most likely change when white gets going!
soviet said:
Also your queenside fianchetto looks a look awkward too, because if you put the bishop on b2, e3 is a bit of a gap...not that it could be immediately exploited but it doesn't look right...even if you have d4 safely covered, and the rest of the dark squares. the dark squares still look weak to me.
Yes! The bishop should be on the c1-h6 diagonal because it has more scope there, and the bishop on b2 could be walled in by the black pawns.

soviet said:
it isn't bad just tweak it a little and set your move order so you know the order of your setup against whatever black plays. I used to play stuff like this- i'd play a larsen (1. b3) once in awhile, d4/b3/c4/Bb2 kind of systems in Queen's Gambits (I don't remember how I got into it but I think it was like a Catalan or a Catalan)...arg, I should get back into chess.
It is not Catalan - Catalan is queens gambit with g3 - it resembles more the way Rubinstein played QP openings, Yusupov also had a lot of success with it. Perhaps Queen's Indian in advance. In any case it is a rather efficient system which could be recommended. And yes, you most certainly should get back to chess! :thumbsup:

soviet said:
the queen or bishops...well, that sounds like your having color complexes, and the queen and bishop help exploit it, probably in combination with knight outposts. don't make holes if possible, try to avoid weak squares.

if it's in the opening your having problems with black's marauding queen- queen moves in the opening (as a general principle, though broken all the time, it isn't steadfast), are usually met by developing moves that attack the queen. like if the game was to go 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Qh4, Nf3 is the sort of thing you'd play. rudimentary bad example but that's all I can come up with. I have to go. :(
Good advice! :)

stormbind said:
The h3 bishop pins back the knight commonly sitting on f6 or h6, slowing down their deployment. Having the Bishop there feels more influencial. If at g2, it can do nothing to deter the knight and actually becomes a target for it.
The knight is not so powerful, if you have a good developed position you can just chase it away with h3, if necessary. I have had hundreds of games with a bishop on g2, and I have never allowed any lousy knight get anywhere near the pride of my position!

stormbind said:
Re: Vulture Queen: Indeed, but with Sicilian and English openings, the pawns are heavilly commited to a certain structure before the Queen appears, making it exceedingly hard to cover all bases.
I need to see any games before I can comment on this, but in general a developed position without too many weaknesses has no reason to fear a lone queen.
I hope this helps and wish you good luck with the further exploring of the royal game. :rockon: And please feel free to ask further questions.
 
luceafarul said:
English is quite a subtle opening, and the best thing with it and one reason that I for one love it is its flexibility. But I can't really see why you can't keep strange ladies and devious clergy-men out of your realm. Again I am curious on what formation the computer adapts.

Here's a game I lost with English. It's not a great example, but I don't like this opening because it's too restrictive; it could give me claustrophobia!! :eek:


[Event "Practice vs Computer; English"]
[Variant "Chess"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. c4 c6 2. e3 e5 3. d4 e4 4. d5 Bd6 5. Nd2 Nf6 6. f3 exf3 7. Ngxf3 cxd5 8. Bd3 Qb6 9. Nb3 dxc4 10. Bxc4 Bb4+ 11. Ke2 d5 12. Bd3 o-o 13. Bd2 Nc6 14. Qc2 Re8 15. Bc3 Qxe3+ 16. Kf1 Ne4 17. Bxe4 dxe4 18. Re1 Qf4 19. Bd2 Bxd2 20. Qxd2 e3 21. Qd5 Nb4 22. Qd4 Qxd4 23. Nbxd4 h6 24. a3 Nd3 25. Re2 f5 26. g3 Bd7 27. Kg2 Re4 28. Rd1 Ne5 29. Nxe5 Rxe5 30. Rd3 Rae8 31. Kf3 g5 32. Rdxe3 g4+ 33. Kf2 Re4 34. b4 Kf8 35. Nb3 Rxe3 36. Rxe3 Rxe3 37. Kxe3 Kg7 38. Kf4 Kf6 39. Na5 b6 40. Nc4 b5 41. Nd6 h5 42. Nb7 Be6 43. Nc5 Bd5 44. Nd3 Bc4 45. Nf2 Bb3 46. h3 a6 47. h4 Bc4 48. Nd1 Bd5 49. Nc3 Bf3 50. a4 Bc6 51. a5 Bf3 52. Nb1 Bd5 53. Nd2 Ba2 54. Nf1 Bb1 55. Ne3 Be4 56. Nd1 Bd5 57. Nc3 Bc4 58. Ke3 Ke5 59. Nd1 Ba2 60. Nc3 Bf7 61. Ne2 Kd5 62. Kd3 Be8 63. Nf4+ Kd6 64. Kd4 Bf7 65. Nd3 Be6 66. Nc5 Bc8 67. Nd3 Bd7 68. Nf4 Be8 69. Ke3 Kc6 70. Nxh5 Bxh5 71. Kf4 Kd5 72. Kxf5 Kc4 73. Kg5 Bf7 74. Kxg4 Kxb4 75. Kf5 Kc3 76. g4 b4 77. g5 b3 78. g6 Bxg6+ 79. Kxg6 b2 80. h5 b1=Q+ 81. Kg5 Qb5+ 82. Kg6 Qxa5 83. h6 Qb6+ 84. Kg7 Qb7+ 85. Kg6 Qe4+ 86. Kg7 Qe7+ 87. Kg6 Qe6+ 88. Kg7 Qe5+ 89. Kg6 a5 90. h7 Qh8
 
stormbind said:
Here's a game I lost with English. It's not a great example, but I don't like this opening because it's too restrictive; it could give me claustrophobia!! :eek:


[Event "Practice vs Computer; English"]
[Variant "Chess"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. c4 c6 2. e3 e5 3. d4 e4 4. d5 Bd6 5. Nd2 Nf6 6. f3 exf3 7. Ngxf3 cxd5 8. Bd3 Qb6 9. Nb3 dxc4 10. Bxc4 Bb4+ 11. Ke2 d5 12. Bd3 o-o 13. Bd2 Nc6 14. Qc2 Re8 15. Bc3 Qxe3+ 16. Kf1 Ne4 17. Bxe4 dxe4 18. Re1 Qf4 19. Bd2 Bxd2 20. Qxd2 e3 21. Qd5 Nb4 22. Qd4 Qxd4 23. Nbxd4 h6 24. a3 Nd3 25. Re2 f5 26. g3 Bd7 27. Kg2 Re4 28. Rd1 Ne5 29. Nxe5 Rxe5 30. Rd3 Rae8 31. Kf3 g5 32. Rdxe3 g4+ 33. Kf2 Re4 34. b4 Kf8 35. Nb3 Rxe3 36. Rxe3 Rxe3 37. Kxe3 Kg7 38. Kf4 Kf6 39. Na5 b6 40. Nc4 b5 41. Nd6 h5 42. Nb7 Be6 43. Nc5 Bd5 44. Nd3 Bc4 45. Nf2 Bb3 46. h3 a6 47. h4 Bc4 48. Nd1 Bd5 49. Nc3 Bf3 50. a4 Bc6 51. a5 Bf3 52. Nb1 Bd5 53. Nd2 Ba2 54. Nf1 Bb1 55. Ne3 Be4 56. Nd1 Bd5 57. Nc3 Bc4 58. Ke3 Ke5 59. Nd1 Ba2 60. Nc3 Bf7 61. Ne2 Kd5 62. Kd3 Be8 63. Nf4+ Kd6 64. Kd4 Bf7 65. Nd3 Be6 66. Nc5 Bc8 67. Nd3 Bd7 68. Nf4 Be8 69. Ke3 Kc6 70. Nxh5 Bxh5 71. Kf4 Kd5 72. Kxf5 Kc4 73. Kg5 Bf7 74. Kxg4 Kxb4 75. Kf5 Kc3 76. g4 b4 77. g5 b3 78. g6 Bxg6+ 79. Kxg6 b2 80. h5 b1=Q+ 81. Kg5 Qb5+ 82. Kg6 Qxa5 83. h6 Qb6+ 84. Kg7 Qb7+ 85. Kg6 Qe4+ 86. Kg7 Qe7+ 87. Kg6 Qe6+ 88. Kg7 Qe5+ 89. Kg6 a5 90. h7 Qh8


The English is not to blame for your loss, you simply did a simple tactical mistake.
Here are some notes:
- 4.Nc3 is less commiting, but your move is also good.
- 4...Bd6 is a horrible move! :vomit:
- 5.Nc3 is much better, because the knight is more active and controls two center squares, e4 and d5.Remember that the goals in the opening is development and control of the center.However if your move is not the best it is playable.
- But this is wrong! 7.Qxf3 has to be tried. Yes I know that one should not bring out the queen in the opening, but there are exceptions, like when you don't want to lose too many centre-pawns... Besides black can hardly punish you here since his queen-side is bottled up. A possible variation is 7.Qxf3 0-0 8.Bd3 Qa5 9.e4 Re8 10.Ne2 Be5 11.0-0 d6 12.h3 and I think white is a bit better. He has a space advantage and after unravelling his queen-side he will enjoy fair prospect for a king-side offensive. I don't think you get sufficient compensation for your pawn.
- 9.Nd4!? is worth considering but I still prefer black.
- The position after 12 moves is won for black. Admittedly there is still a lot of play in the position, and admittedly black will need patience and technique to bring the game home, but a good player would manage this.Since this is a comment on your opening play, I'll just pass the rest in silence.
To sum up: you made one indifferent move which lost part of your opening advantage, but the reason you lost was just a simple tactical blunders. Those can unfortunately never be completely eliminated - most of the games I ever lost was due to elementary blunders and even great masters make howlers from time to time - but with practice you will reduce their appearance drastically.
So there is no reason for you to abandon the English, give the c-pawn more tries, and the reward will be plentiful! :yeah:
To whet your appetite, here is a game with my favourite player.

Mihai Suba - Henryk Dobosz, Yerevan 1980
1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.g3 c6 4.Qc2 b5 5.b3 Na6 6.Bg2 Bb7 7.0-0 Nf6 8.d3 Be7 9.Bb2 0-0 10.Nbd2 Nb4 11.e3 a5 12.Ne5 Rc8 13.Ndf3 Qc7 14.Rfc1 bxc4 15.bxc4 Na6 16.cxd5 cxd5 17.Qxc7 Rxc7 18.Rxc7 Nxc7 19.Rb1 Na6 20.Ng5 Ba8 21.Bh3 Rb8 22.Rc1 Ne8 23.Ngxf7 Rxb2 24.Rc8 Nc7 25.Bxe6 Bf6 26.Nd6 Kf8 27.Nxe8 Bb7 28.Nd7+ Ke7 29.Rxc7 Kxe8 30.Nc5 Ba8 31.Bf7+ Kd8 32.Ne6#
 
I only play Dutch (sometimes Grunfeld instead), Philidor (sometimes Two Knights instead), King's Gambit (with 3. Bc4) and that's ALL.
 
luceafarul said:
The English is not to blame for your loss, you simply did a simple tactical mistake.
Ok, I finally won one! Actually, it was 1. b3 (what is that opening called?) but close enough to English because 2. c4.

I was sleepy when I played, but it's actually quite interesting in replay. I have never seen a game quite like this before: The computer made some really insane moves after loosing it's Queen but I don't think there was anything it could do to save the game - there's a large number of possible checkmates.

Sorry, but it was set to a lower level because I have been struggling with unfamiliar openings.

[Event "Practive vs Computer; English"]
[Variant "Chess"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. b3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Bb2 Bc5 4. e3 o-o 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Qe2 e5 7. o-o-o d5 8. Nf3 d4 9. Na4 Bb4 10. exd4 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd4 12. Qe3 Nf5 13. Qe2 Be6 14. d3 Nd4 15. Qe3 Nf5 16. Qe2 exd3 17. Rxd3 Qe7 18. g4 Nd6 19. g5 Nfe4 20. Rg1 Nxg5 21. Rdg3 h6 22. h4 Nf5 23. hxg5 Nxg3 24. Rxg3 hxg5 25. Qh5 Rfd8 26. Bd3 g6 27. Nxg6 fxg6 28. Qxg6+ Kf8 29. Rxg5 Qf7 30. Qh6+ Ke7 31. Rg7 Rxd3 32. Rxf7+ Bxf7 33. Qf6+ Ke8 34. Qh8+ Bf8 35. Bg7 Ke7 36. Qh4+ Kd7 37. Bxf8 Kc8 38. Qg4+ Kb8 39. Nc5 Bg6 40. Qxg6 Rd8 41. Qe4 Rd1+ 42. Kc2 c6 43. Qe8+ Kc7 44. Qxa8 Rc1+ 45. Kxc1 b5 46. Qxa7+ Kc8 47. Qd7+ Kb8 48. Qb7+
 
stormbind said:
Ok, I finally won one! Actually, it was 1. b3 (what is that opening called?) but close enough to English because 2. c4.

I was sleepy when I played, but it's actually quite interesting in replay. I have never seen a game quite like this before: The computer made some really insane moves after loosing it's Queen but I don't think there was anything it could do to save the game - there's a large number of possible checkmates.

Sorry, but it was set to a lower level because I have been struggling with unfamiliar openings.

[Event "Practive vs Computer; English"]
[Variant "Chess"]
[Result "1-0"]

1. b3 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Bb2 Bc5 4. e3 o-o 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Qe2 e5 7. o-o-o d5 8. Nf3 d4 9. Na4 Bb4 10. exd4 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd4 12. Qe3 Nf5 13. Qe2 Be6 14. d3 Nd4 15. Qe3 Nf5 16. Qe2 exd3 17. Rxd3 Qe7 18. g4 Nd6 19. g5 Nfe4 20. Rg1 Nxg5 21. Rdg3 h6 22. h4 Nf5 23. hxg5 Nxg3 24. Rxg3 hxg5 25. Qh5 Rfd8 26. Bd3 g6 27. Nxg6 fxg6 28. Qxg6+ Kf8 29. Rxg5 Qf7 30. Qh6+ Ke7 31. Rg7 Rxd3 32. Rxf7+ Bxf7 33. Qf6+ Ke8 34. Qh8+ Bf8 35. Bg7 Ke7 36. Qh4+ Kd7 37. Bxf8 Kc8 38. Qg4+ Kb8 39. Nc5 Bg6 40. Qxg6 Rd8 41. Qe4 Rd1+ 42. Kc2 c6 43. Qe8+ Kc7 44. Qxa8 Rc1+ 45. Kxc1 b5 46. Qxa7+ Kc8 47. Qd7+ Kb8 48. Qb7+
First of all, I think you played a very nice game. You punishd the computer's greed in a way not to be misunderstood - grabbing the g-pawn was foolhardy indeed, you demonstrated exactly why!:goodjob: Black had to try something like 19...Nc5, but white is still better.I can't see any salvation for black after 25.Qh5, white's attack is just too strong.
The opening 1.b3 is usually called Nimzowitsch - Larsen Attack or just simply Larsen's Opening.The Great Dane had a lot of success with it, the following game being perhaps the most impressive:

Bent Larsen - Lubomir Kavalek, Lugano 1970
1. b3 c5 2. Bb2 Nc6 3. c4 e5 4. g3 d6 5. Bg2 Nge7 6. e3 g6 7. Ne2 Bg7
8. Nbc3 O-O 9. d3 Be6 10. Nd5 Qd7 11. h4 f5 12. Qd2 Rae8 13. h5 b5 14.
hxg6 hxg6 15. Nec3 bxc4 16. dxc4 e4 17. O-O-O Ne5 18. Nf4 Rd8 19. Kb1
Bf7 20. g4 Nxg4 21. f3 exf3 22. Bxf3 Ne5 23. Qh2 Bxc4 24. bxc4 Nxf3
25. Qh7+ Kf7 26. Ncd5 Rg8 27. Nxe7 Rb8 28. Ka1 Qxe7 29. Qxg6+ Kf8 30.
Ne6+ Qxe6 31. Bxg7+ Ke7 32. Bf8+ Rbxf8 33. Rh7+ 1-0

As in your game, it really transposed to an English, but there are some independent lines as well.
 
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